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Author Topic: Step Mash For Kolsch...  (Read 20771 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2016, 04:43:22 am »
Brewing is a craft and if doing a step mash makes better beer for you (even if it is imaginary ;) ) then do it. It should be about having fun, and for some people the extra steps are fun. When I do 5 and 10 gallon batches now I go single infusion all the way. But if I had a steam jacketed mash tun I admit I would do Hochkurz mash for everything and I would tell every one how bug a difference it makes and I would believe it too.

FTR: We have been debating the differences between decoction and non decocted mashes on this forum (and elsewhere) for as long as there has been an interwebs. I definitely think it makes  a difference, at the very least in color and efficiency. I think the flavor is different too, I just don't know that it is better.

My approach to the craft of brewing has been more focused on the fermentation side, which is where I think the major emphasis should be. If you have that dialed in then I think you are set to start playing around on the mash side. If not, then no amount of hochkurz or decoction is going to matter.

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2016, 05:31:08 am »
Good to see you around here still, Keith.  8)
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2016, 06:18:26 am »
Good to see you around here still, Keith.  8)

I still brew on my homebrew system and still learn stuff from here!

thelastdamnbatch

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2016, 06:53:27 am »
From "The TextBook of Brewing Vol 1":

Quote
No difference in flavor was found with any of the mashing methods with lightly modified malts, but there were marked differences in palate with fully modified malts.  The most drastic of all these mashing methods, Hochkurzmaischverfahren gave the best palate and most sparkling beers with fully modified malts.

There is much more information on the various mashing methods in the "Mashing" chapters.

If you don't have both volumes of the "The TextBook of Brewing", it really is worth the investment, IMHO.

Mashing centers around obtaining and preserving the best "palate" from a certain modification of malt.

It's most definitely not about "adding or forming" flavor by using the different methods.

Malt flavor is added or formed during the malting process.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 07:07:59 am by thelastdamnbatch »

The Beerery

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2016, 06:55:23 am »
From "The TextBook of Brewing Vol 1":

Quote
No difference in flavor was found with any of the mashing methods with lightly modified malts, but there were marked differences in palate with fully modified malts.  The most drastic of all these mashing methods, Hochkurzmaischverfahren gave the best palate and most sparkling beers with fully modified malts.

There is much more information on the various mashing methods in the "Mashing" chapters.

If you don't have both volumes of the "The TextBook of Brewing", it really is worth the investment, IMHO.

Mashing centers around obtaining the best "palate" from a certain modification of malt.

It's most definitely not about "adding or forming" flavor by using the different methods.

Malt flavor is added or formed during the malting process.

And if properly done.. preserved in the mash.  ;)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2016, 06:57:49 am »
Perceptions are funny things-especially when it comes to senses. What I see, taste, smell or hear can be very different than someone else. I've come to appreciate how vastly different peoples perceptions of things can be when it comes to brewing. I taste diacetyl at seemingly low levels. My buddy , well not so much. I say it's there and it is not appealing and down right repulsive to me. To him, seems it takes a diacetyl bomb (my perception) before he picks it up. Ultimately, he says he doesn't perceive it, and I say I do- neither is wrong.

Pick your process- decoction, step mashing, shaken vs stir plate, fast ferment vs traditional lager method...the list goes on and on. For me, someones perceptions about something are both fascinating and interesting. They don't necessarily persuade or dissuade me from trying it to see what I perceive-especially if their perceptions are things that I feel might be desirable in my finished product. Exercising restraint in these situations is important IMO- if someone perceives something [or not], and doesn't make all encompassing definitive statements like, "its the only way to make great beer", or "if you don't do it your beer is subpar" or "I've done it and it doesn't make a difference", then that's ok in my book. I say keep doing what you perceive improves your beer or results in something different that you like better.

There are facts, and then there are perceptions...and the latter belongs to the sensory perceptions of the beholder, and is in fact their reality.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 08:17:08 am by Wort-H.O.G. »
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2016, 09:04:45 am »
Well said.

Offline coolman26

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2016, 12:27:56 pm »
Now that makes me want to step mash my next Kolsch. Agreed and well put. I have friends suck down batches that I would rather dump. Going to be 63 here tomorrow. I might just step mash my challenge beer! 


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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2016, 12:51:08 pm »

Now that makes me want to step mash my next Kolsch. Agreed and well put. I have friends suck down batches that I would rather dump. Going to be 63 here tomorrow. I might just step mash my challenge beer! 


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The challenge beer is extract, no?

Maybe you can do a mental step mash?



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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2016, 01:13:31 pm »

Now that makes me want to step mash my next Kolsch. Agreed and well put. I have friends suck down batches that I would rather dump. Going to be 63 here tomorrow. I might just step mash my challenge beer! 


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The challenge beer is extract, no?

Maybe you can do a mental step mash?



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I keep seeing differing responses to that. Some have said that DME just has to be an ingredient.

I have two different plans based on which rule interpretation is correct. If some form of mashing is allowed, I'm planning to decoct a pound or two of grain, then get the remainder of my sugars from DME.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

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Offline blatz

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2016, 02:04:11 pm »
I've swapped back and for the many times on hockhurz step mashing and single infusion for my lagers.  I've been more pleased with the hockhurz mashed beers more often than not.  I would prefer it if I preferred the single infusion beers, since the latter while fairly easy with my HERMS, is a bit shorter of a brewday but I don't.  I'm stepping all my lagers going forward.

I'd probably step mash the kolsch personally.

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2016, 02:08:46 pm »
I keep seeing differing responses to that. Some have said that DME just has to be an ingredient.

I have two different plans based on which rule interpretation is correct. If some form of mashing is allowed, I'm planning to decoct a pound or two of grain, then get the remainder of my sugars from DME.

I'm not sure exactly what "challenge" you guys are talking about, but I can tell you, I have experience mashing extract as explained in the link that follows.  A couple years ago, my local homebrew club ran an all ESB competition where we all brewed the same extract ESB recipe to see whose process reigned supreme or whatever.  The ingredients list included aromatic malt, which fortunately contains some enzymes (supposedly, anyway).  So, I did a quick steep of the aromatic and other specialty malts for a few minutes, removed the steeping bag, added all the extract (several pounds), then maintained the temperature at 150 F for like 40 minutes or so, then brought to the boil and brewed as normal.  (Yeah, it was definitely single infusion.)  The result?  Well I can't say if it was due to the mash or due to my use of distilled water or anything else, but..... I won the gold medal out of about 8 or 9 entries.  And I'm sure no one else did a glorified steep like I did.  Otherwise all entries were exactly the same recipe, same ingredients, but just different water and different process and different brewers.  It was pretty cool to see my efforts paid off.

So anyway.... read what follows if you've ever thought about mashing extract.  It can be done, and it does seem like maybe it makes a difference.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=14465.0

Apologies if I doth digress too much.
Dave

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Offline davidw

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2016, 03:39:00 pm »
I have never won a medal in the NHC, so they are better than I. 

Don't make the mistake of assuming just because someone has won a medal or ten that they are automatically a better brewer than any one else.
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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2016, 03:56:03 pm »
I wonder if those receiving the award are honestly saying the same thing deep down inside.  ;)
Dave

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Offline erockrph

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Re: Step Mash For Kolsch...
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2016, 04:18:29 pm »

Now that makes me want to step mash my next Kolsch. Agreed and well put. I have friends suck down batches that I would rather dump. Going to be 63 here tomorrow. I might just step mash my challenge beer! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The challenge beer is extract, no?

Maybe you can do a mental step mash?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I keep seeing differing responses to that. Some have said that DME just has to be an ingredient.

I have two different plans based on which rule interpretation is correct. If some form of mashing is allowed, I'm planning to decoct a pound or two of grain, then get the remainder of my sugars from DME.
Not to take this too far off on a tangent, but the challenge rules for the spring swap have been narrowed down to A) MUST use DME and dry yeast and B) CANNOT mash or mini-mash. Everything else is fair game.

Back on topic, I had recently made up my mind to experiment with the Hochkurz mash a bit right before this thread went up. It won't add any extra time to my usual process, so I figure why not. I have an Uerige-esque Alt planned for next month, so I'll be trying it out then.
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