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Author Topic: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's  (Read 4037 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2016, 05:20:13 pm »
Muted and dull! I am very careful not to oxiginate post-boil. I transfer into the keg via gravity and hoses with almost zero splashing. Regarding water chem, it's always R/O and whatever Bru'n'water says which in general has been a little bit of CaCL.


Ok, so oxidation is likely happening for starters. Fill your keg full of star san and pump it completely empty and you'll have a purged keg. After you rack, then purge the headspace 7 or 8 times via the PRV. That should help a lot with maintaining your hop aromas. And if you're mostly only using CaCl2 in your hoppy beers, there's room for improvement. Next time try 150 ppm sulfate and 60ppm chloride. The sulfate will make the hops really pop in a beer. After that, you can adjust the sulfate higher if you like. Those two things will flat help improve your hoppy beers..
Jon H.

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2016, 05:21:35 pm »
How much hops are you using? Are you saving the bulk for whirlpool and dry hops? Do you like the flavor/aroma if the hops you're using, and just aren't getting enough of it?

Eric,
Here are the hops used for the Hop Fu...an incredible amount of hops and you would never guess it!

10.00 g   Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min   Hop   4   17.4 IBUs
25.00 g   Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min   Hop   5   45.5 IBUs
20.00 g   Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min   Hop   6   26.1 IBUs
20.00 g   Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min   Hop   8   7.5 IBUs
20.00 g   Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min   Hop   9   11.4 IBUs
20.00 g   Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   10   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   11   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   12   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   13   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   14   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   16   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   17   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   18   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   19   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   20   0.0 IBUs

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2016, 05:24:02 pm »
Muted and dull! I am very careful not to oxiginate post-boil. I transfer into the keg via gravity and hoses with almost zero splashing. Regarding water chem, it's always R/O and whatever Bru'n'water says which in general has been a little bit of CaCL.


Ok, so oxidation is likely happening for starters. Fill your keg full of star san and pump it completely empty and you'll have a purged keg. After you rack, then purge the headspace 7 or 8 times via the PRV. That should help a lot with maintaining your hop aromas. And if you're mostly only using CaCl2 in your hoppy beers, there's room for improvement. Next time try 150 ppm sulfate and 60ppm chloride. The sulfate will make the hops really pop in a beer. After that, you can adjust the sulfate higher if you like. Those two things will flat help improve your hoppy beers..

Re: the oxidation...I do purge the headspace like you suggested. I do not do a closed transfer....but I can't imagine that would have such a big effect!

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2016, 05:32:38 pm »
Muted and dull! I am very careful not to oxiginate post-boil. I transfer into the keg via gravity and hoses with almost zero splashing. Regarding water chem, it's always R/O and whatever Bru'n'water says which in general has been a little bit of CaCL.


Ok, so oxidation is likely happening for starters. Fill your keg full of star san and pump it completely empty and you'll have a purged keg. After you rack, then purge the headspace 7 or 8 times via the PRV. That should help a lot with maintaining your hop aromas. And if you're mostly only using CaCl2 in your hoppy beers, there's room for improvement. Next time try 150 ppm sulfate and 60ppm chloride. The sulfate will make the hops really pop in a beer. After that, you can adjust the sulfate higher if you like. Those two things will flat help improve your hoppy beers..

Re: the oxidation...I do purge the headspace like you suggested. I do not do a closed transfer....but I can't imagine that would have such a big effect!


You rack into a purged keg and purge the headspace after racking? Just checking. Closed transfers do help, but the former is pretty effective. Do you vacuum seal and freeze your hops?
Jon H.

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2016, 05:34:47 pm »

Muted and dull! I am very careful not to oxiginate post-boil. I transfer into the keg via gravity and hoses with almost zero splashing. Regarding water chem, it's always R/O and whatever Bru'n'water says which in general has been a little bit of CaCL.


Ok, so oxidation is likely happening for starters. Fill your keg full of star san and pump it completely empty and you'll have a purged keg. After you rack, then purge the headspace 7 or 8 times via the PRV. That should help a lot with maintaining your hop aromas. And if you're mostly only using CaCl2 in your hoppy beers, there's room for improvement. Next time try 150 ppm sulfate and 60ppm chloride. The sulfate will make the hops really pop in a beer. After that, you can adjust the sulfate higher if you like. Those two things will flat help improve your hoppy beers..

Re: the oxidation...I do purge the headspace like you suggested. I do not do a closed transfer....but I can't imagine that would have such a big effect!


You rack into a purged keg and purge the headspace after racking? Just checking. Closed transfers do help, but the former is pretty effective. Do you vacuum seal and freeze your hops?
yes that's how I transfer. No on the vacuum seal. I thought about that recently and perhaps the hops (although in freezer ziplocks) had freezer burn from leaving the door open one too many times. In this case the hips were fairly new.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2016, 05:39:40 pm »
Having done both, the vacuum sealer makes a big difference FWIW. Your beers would thank you !
Jon H.

Offline Footballandhops

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2016, 05:41:12 pm »

Muted and dull! I am very careful not to oxiginate post-boil. I transfer into the keg via gravity and hoses with almost zero splashing. Regarding water chem, it's always R/O and whatever Bru'n'water says which in general has been a little bit of CaCL.


Ok, so oxidation is likely happening for starters. Fill your keg full of star san and pump it completely empty and you'll have a purged keg. After you rack, then purge the headspace 7 or 8 times via the PRV. That should help a lot with maintaining your hop aromas. And if you're mostly only using CaCl2 in your hoppy beers, there's room for improvement. Next time try 150 ppm sulfate and 60ppm chloride. The sulfate will make the hops really pop in a beer. After that, you can adjust the sulfate higher if you like. Those two things will flat help improve your hoppy beers..

This is everything I was thinking about posting without posting it myself
Batch Sparging Bottle Dreggggg Harvesting Son-ova Biznatch Raging Against the Machine

https://itun.es/us/PN5dq?i=269457903

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2016, 05:49:06 pm »

Anyone on here (within reason) who wants some bottles for feedback just say so. I'd love some feedback from BJCP judges.
This is the moment I wish I was BJCP certified

Offline erockrph

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2016, 06:55:53 pm »
How much hops are you using? Are you saving the bulk for whirlpool and dry hops? Do you like the flavor/aroma if the hops you're using, and just aren't getting enough of it?

Eric,
Here are the hops used for the Hop Fu...an incredible amount of hops and you would never guess it!

10.00 g   Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min   Hop   4   17.4 IBUs
25.00 g   Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min   Hop   5   45.5 IBUs
20.00 g   Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min   Hop   6   26.1 IBUs
20.00 g   Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min   Hop   8   7.5 IBUs
20.00 g   Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min   Hop   9   11.4 IBUs
20.00 g   Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   10   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   11   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   12   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   13   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min   Hop   14   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   16   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   17   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   18   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   19   0.0 IBUs
20.00 g   Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days   Hop   20   0.0 IBUs

I'm hesitant to pick apart someone else's award-winning recipe, but if this isn't your tastes, I could make a few suggestions on how I'd do things differently to tailor this to my tastes.

A) I count 7 hop varieties here. I like variety in my hop bills, but that might be enough to lead to some muddled flavor. I try to narrow my hop bills down to 3-4 varieties in IPA's.

B) I've been moving away from sharply bitter IPA's, so I'd cut out the FWH of Chinook and possibly the 30 minute Columbus.

C) This is a fair amount of hops, but I use about double the amount of late and dry hops as this recipe in a 3-gallon batch of IPA. There's certainly room for more hops in this.

D) For maximum flavor and aroma impact, move all the late hops to the whirlpool/steep. The jury is still out on what temperature to steep at right now. 170F will work fine. 120F may work better.

E) I know many brewers like their results from a 30 minute steep, but I feel that I get more hop character from a longer 60-90 minute steep.

If I were going to adapt this recipe to my own tastes, I'd have 3 hop additions:

Warrior at 60 minutes for 60-70 IBU
Whirlpool for 60 minutes at 170F with 3.5 ounces each of Simcoe, Amarillo and Citra
Dry hop with 2 ounces each of Simcoe, Amarillo and Citra

Obviously, everyone's tastes will vary, and this is just my take on this. I'm a huge hophead, and when I started brewing IPA was the style I really wanted to jump into. My beers never quite got to the level of hop character I wanted until I started really pushing the hopping rates and focusing on a big steep addition.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline denny

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2016, 07:43:17 pm »

I'd say APA/AIPA accounts for maybe 75-80% of my brewing.  I guess my first question would be "define boring".  And my second would be "are you sure you like the style?".

Good question, yes I love the style. I would have assumed the Hop Fu would be at least a tasty beer and for me that wasn't the case. Boring as in not remarkable. Would you like a bottle??

Yeah, I would.  PM me.
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Boring Pale Ales/ IPA's
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2016, 04:29:48 am »


I'd say APA/AIPA accounts for maybe 75-80% of my brewing.  I guess my first question would be "define boring".  And my second would be "are you sure you like the style?".

Good question, yes I love the style. I would have assumed the Hop Fu would be at least a tasty beer and for me that wasn't the case. Boring as in not remarkable. Would you like a bottle??

Yeah, I would.  PM me.
Shipping this keg is gonna be expensive! PM sent.