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Author Topic: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop  (Read 12592 times)

Offline pete b

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2016, 07:00:24 am »
Personally I think of flavour as aroma alone. Mint flavour, orange flavour, strawberry flavour... these are all compounds detected inside the nose. I would never describe something as salt-flavoured, acid-flavoured or bitterness flavoured.


I don't disagree from a scientific standpoint. The fact that the link between taste and aroma is so strong in what we perceive when we eat or drink something has a lot to do with why there is very little real quantified info on the subject of hop flavor/aroma. So we all experiment and find out what we like. Regardless of terminology, some beers have varying levels of hop bitterness, flavor(taste), and aroma. 'Flavor' just seems to speak a common language in hopping beers anyway.
We probably could say that we don't taste anything in our mouth or smell anything in our nose, it all happens in our brain.
Correctamundo! I can come up with a new dish that I have fun making and eat it while having a great time with dear friends. I could write everything down, measuring to the milligram and use the same exact ingredients, times, methods etc. and I could never make that dish taste the same again. You could have your first IPA on a date while falling in love or you could be drinking your first IPA when you find out that a loved one died. You'll have drastically different perceptions of the flavor of hops based on subconscious associations.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2016, 07:02:51 am »
Things I love about beer #17:

Every conversation about beer will devolve into a philosophy debate if given enough time.

Carry on...
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline pete b

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2016, 07:09:19 am »
Things I love about beer #17:

Every conversation about beer will devolve into a philosophy debate if given enough time.

Carry on...
By "time" do you mean our linear concept of time or the whole time-space continuum?
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2016, 07:16:11 am »
Things I love about beer #17:

Every conversation about beer will devolve into a philosophy debate if given enough time.

Carry on...
By "time" do you mean our linear concept of time or the whole time-space continuum?
This was one of the most brutally-challenging pop-sci books I've ever read, but immensely interesting. I might have to re-read it soon:
http://www.amazon.com/Times-Arrow-Archimedes-Point-Directions/dp/0195117980
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline fmader

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2016, 07:16:39 am »
Things I love about beer #17:

Every conversation about beer will devolve into a philosophy debate if given enough time.

Carry on...
By "time" do you mean our linear concept of time or the whole time-space continuum?

Im just looking for time to brew...

Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2016, 07:17:20 am »
Things I love about beer #17:

Every conversation about beer will devolve into a philosophy debate if given enough time.

Carry on...
By "time" do you mean our linear concept of time or the whole time-space continuum?


Right. I prefer Dr Who time.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2016, 10:32:17 am »
One night at Russian River I had a Pliny, it was dumbed down, I could only get bitter. Mrs. R said it just like always. I didn't realize a sinus infection had begun, but I did the next day.

There is taste and aroma. The brain interprets the flavors.

Hey, on taste, some say there may be the ability to taste or sense fat and calcium. Jury is still out on those.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline charles1968

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2016, 12:02:23 pm »
Hey, on taste, some say there may be the ability to taste or sense fat and calcium. Jury is still out on those.

There are also physical qualities you can feel in the mouth, like arbonation, temperature, and body. They all contribute to the experience. Temperature also affects aroma/flavour, and carbonation affects acidity.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2016, 03:37:16 pm »
Hey, on taste, some say there may be the ability to taste or sense fat and calcium. Jury is still out on those.

There are also physical qualities you can feel in the mouth, like arbonation, temperature, and body. They all contribute to the experience. Temperature also affects aroma/flavour, and carbonation affects acidity.
Add astringency to that. Not a flavor, but a sensation.
Jeff Rankert
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BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline pete b

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2016, 03:39:01 pm »
Hey, on taste, some say there may be the ability to taste or sense fat and calcium. Jury is still out on those.

There are also physical qualities you can feel in the mouth, like arbonation, temperature, and body. They all contribute to the experience. Temperature also affects aroma/flavour, and carbonation affects acidity.
Add astringency to that. Not a flavor, but a sensation.
And alcohol "hotness"?
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline rodwha

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2016, 05:48:39 pm »
We love rabbit trails, thats for sure. Not sure its nailing down what the OP asked, but it kills time in a fun way.

Not exactly, though, as was mentioned there isn't really anything concrete as of yet.

Does it take any more hops to acquire the same level of hoppiness using just a whirlpool vs a flavoring addition?

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2016, 06:19:51 pm »
Hey, on taste, some say there may be the ability to taste or sense fat and calcium. Jury is still out on those.

There are also physical qualities you can feel in the mouth, like arbonation, temperature, and body. They all contribute to the experience. Temperature also affects aroma/flavour, and carbonation affects acidity.
Add astringency to that. Not a flavor, but a sensation.
And alcohol "hotness"?
High ethonal is a warming sensation. Fusels go from warm to hot for me, if anyone has better information, let us know.

Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2016, 07:10:43 pm »
We love rabbit trails, thats for sure. Not sure its nailing down what the OP asked, but it kills time in a fun way.

Not exactly, though, as was mentioned there isn't really anything concrete as of yet.

Does it take any more hops to acquire the same level of hoppiness using just a whirlpool vs a flavoring addition?
Well, my house pale is very similar to SNPA though maltier because I love Golden Promise and I use Munich instead of crystal. Hoppiness is in the same ball park. I bitter with 24g Magnum and nothing else until whirlpool. At 170F I whirlpool 50g Cascade and 50g Centennial for 30 min. That's it.

I play with in occasionally, like today, and throw in another 50g of each at 120F.

With late boil "flavor" hopping, you have to dial back to avoid over bittering. That's one reason I like the 170 and 120. I can cram in all the flavor I can stand without changing the bitterness.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2016, 07:29:35 pm »
With late boil "flavor" hopping, you have to dial back to avoid over bittering. That's one reason I like the 170 and 120. I can cram in all the flavor I can stand without changing the bitterness.


Yep.  rodwha - I add the amount of hops that I would normally have added in the late boil to the whirlpool (as Jim mentioned 170F).
Jon H.

Offline pete b

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Re: Whirlpool vs Flavor/Aroma/Dry Hop
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2016, 05:47:13 am »
I'll just chime in that the last IPA was the first one that I was completely happy with the hops profile. All the late additions were in a whirlpool that was 170 to start. I have done this a bunch of times but the difference with this one was that I let the whirlpool additions ride for almost an hour, stirring quite a few times. When I tasted the gravity sample I actually decided not to dry hop it was so good.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.