Author Topic: First Pils  (Read 2496 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2016, 12:16:03 AM »
Ok I'll skip the dry hop. I never do it anyway. Was just a thought

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2016, 12:39:39 AM »
The Germans like to boil hops for at least 10 minutes. The Americans doing Pilsners, not so much.
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Offline euge

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2016, 02:40:32 AM »
As time has passed my preference has turned to restraint in the use of hops. And it's good to know about the 10 minute minimum.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2016, 03:03:39 AM »
The Germans like to boil hops for at least 10 minutes. The Americans doing Pilsners, not so much.


Jeff, given the 10 minute practice, do German brewers specifically target whirlpool hop character in pils (or other hoppy beers), or does it just sometimes come as a result of the long cooling process ? I wouldn't dry hop a German beer (though I have done that for American 'hoppy lager'/IPL beers). Just curious if you feel the best German hop flavor comes from the boil or that combined with the whirlpool process.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2016, 03:59:43 AM »
I haven't been in Pilsner Breweries. It is said traditional ones have flotation tanks. The chilled wort is pumped into tose. The break settles, and clear wort is pumped th Ed next day to fermenters and pitched. The wort is cold the whole time.

At as brewery that made Dunkel, they whirlpooled and chilled.The plate chiller was huge, but the batch size was 51 barrels. Chilling was just under an hour. But there were not a ton of hops in the Dunkel.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline euge

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2016, 08:03:37 PM »
So I was looking at the basic Br'un water spreadsheet to build up a pils from RO and I noticed the mash pH is estimated at 5.7 with 100% pils and it's the same with your lineup JIm.

I added acid malt to get it down to 5.4, but am wondering since 5.7 is in the accepted range (theoretically) does it actually match up with any Pilsener flavor profile?

I think mashing at a pH of 5.7 is high for such a pale beer. Thoughts on this?

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Laws are spider-webs, which catch the little flies, but cannot hold the big ones. -Anacharsis

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2016, 08:17:38 PM »
I personally wouldn't mash any beer @ 5.7 .  I mash porter and stout @ 5.6 and everything else below. I just mashed a helles at 5.45. Did one of the profiles show that as target pH, or did you just enter in your grist and it showed a pH of 5.7 before you added acid or salts?
Jon H.

Offline euge

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2016, 08:24:01 PM »
Ha it's an un-upgraded version of Bru'n...

That's gonna change. ;)

So room-temp 5.7 mash pH was a calculated straight estimate of a 100% pils malt bill and 1.6 qt/# mash. Pre and post salt addition- it doesn't change the pH.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Laws are spider-webs, which catch the little flies, but cannot hold the big ones. -Anacharsis

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2016, 08:28:33 PM »
I've been mashing my pale German lagers at 5.5 ph.  I use 10% phosphoric on them. I suppose the hoppier ones would be ok with lactic, but if it doesn't matter and you have both...

I use Brewers Friend so I don't know martins profiles. My water for this beer will be 4.5 gallons DI in the mash with 4g CaSo4, 1g MgSo4, .25g NaCl, and 18ml 10% phosphoric.  5.5 gallons sparge with same salts but no acid needed.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2016, 08:29:37 PM »
I don't get why the salt additions don't change the pH. Regardless, I always adjust the pH after entering the grist. That number is an 'if left untreated' pH estimate. Hard to go wrong with 5.25-5.4 for pils IMO.
Jon H.

Offline euge

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2016, 08:35:26 PM »
I'm aiming for a pH of 5.4! And a sulfate-chloride ratio of 1.2 for a balanced beer.

Rather use phosphoric acid than lactic-based acid malt. LHBS didn't have any a couple days ago. Northern Brewer does!
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Laws are spider-webs, which catch the little flies, but cannot hold the big ones. -Anacharsis

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2016, 10:39:40 PM »
I don't get why the salt additions don't change the pH. Regardless, I always adjust the pH after entering the grist. That number is an 'if left untreated' pH estimate. Hard to go wrong with 5.25-5.4 for pils IMO.

+1 that's not right. salts like gypsum and cacl will change the PH unless negligible additions.

anyway-single infusion just pick a PH...5.2-5.6 and call it a day.  Me, I'd shoot for the 5.4ish optimal for beta rest and the single infusion temp range of 148F.
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Offline euge

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2016, 11:01:15 PM »
They are/were very small additions. I upped them significantly and brought calcium up to 50ppm which dropped the mash pH to 5.6...

I've never used bru'n water before. I'm assuming my RO is very similar to the calculator's- so I just use those stats.

Which is almost identical to the pilsen profile. A tiny amount of gypsum and calcium chloride brings the SO/Cl ration in line. The cation/anion are balanced. RA and hardness are spot on, The only thing is that 5.7 pH!

And adding phosphoric acid swings the RA way negative and screws up the cation/anion balance. I'm also assuming this is bad.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Laws are spider-webs, which catch the little flies, but cannot hold the big ones. -Anacharsis

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2016, 11:10:05 PM »
Be sure (if you haven't) to set the dilution tab to RO and whatever % of RO you're using. I use all RO so I set the dilution tab to RO 100%.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First Pils
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2016, 11:18:11 PM »
They are/were very small additions. I upped them significantly and brought calcium up to 50ppm which dropped the mash pH to 5.6...

I've never used bru'n water before. I'm assuming my RO is very similar to the calculator's- so I just use those stats.

Which is almost identical to the pilsen profile. A tiny amount of gypsum and calcium chloride brings the SO/Cl ration in line. The cation/anion are balanced. RA and hardness are spot on, The only thing is that 5.7 pH!

And adding phosphoric acid swings the RA way negative and screws up the cation/anion balance. I'm also assuming this is bad.

there it is..you are using pilsen water profile?   use yellow balanced and add your salts to match that profile. your PH should drop.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest