[homoeccentricus]

In my quest for the ultimate patersbier, a Rochefort 4 clone:

Recipe: Rochefort 4
Brewer: Homo Eccentricus
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.44 l
Post Boil Volume: 11.44 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 l   
Bottling Volume: 9.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 33.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 16.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
2.00 kg               Pilsen (Dingemans) (3.2 EBC)             Grain         1        85.0 %        
0.20 kg               Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC)              Grain         2        8.5 %         
0.12 kg               Wheat, Flaked (3.2 EBC)                  Grain         3        5.1 %         
8.00 g                Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - First Wort 9 Hop           4        12.3 IBUs     
0.03 kg               Candi Sugar, Dark (1900.0 EBC)           Sugar         5        1.4 %         
8.00 g                Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil  Hop           6        3.9 IBUs      
3.00 g                Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)           Spice         7        -             
1.0 pkg               Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) [12 Yeast         8        -             


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 2.35 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification  Add 6.05 l of water at 70.6 C           64.4 C        75 min        
Mash Out          Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min              75.6 C        10 min        

Should I simply use the Rochefort boiled water profile? I know Rochefort has their own well.
Rochefort (boiled)   Ca 28   Mg 10   Na 6   SO4 32   Cl 17   BC 80

[HoosierBrew]

First off, the recipe looks great. I may take a swing at that sometime. As for the water, I like more Ca content in my ales. I'd use a balanced profile, not targeting high levels of sulfate or chloride and bump up until I hit 50ppm Ca. Sounds great.

[homoeccentricus]

I read somewhere, I think in BLAM, that the head brewer says that Rochefort water is more mineral than, say Chimay. It seems to be part of the flavor palette.

[HoosierBrew]

I read somewhere, I think in BLAM, that the head brewer says that Rochefort water is more mineral than, say Chimay. It seems to be part of the flavor palette.

Actually, I remember the same from BLAM.  You could always bump the minerals up a tad higher, say 80ppm sulfate, 70ppm chloride. That would carry your Ca content up to the 50+ range. Just a thought.

[homoeccentricus]

Of course it depends on what the good monks do with the water. Unboiled it has 82 ppm Ca and 245 ppm BC.

[homoeccentricus]

"they also leave the water relatively hard, and higher in calcium and bicarbonate than at Chimay."

Chimay boiled has 29 ppm Ca and 80 ppm BC, so you might be right to bump it up.

[RPIScotty]

What is Rochefort 4? Is this an original of yours based on the concept of a hypothetical Rochefort table beer?


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[RPIScotty]

Referencing BLAM:

"...pH drops to 5.8-5.9 in the mash, with mineral acid used to drop the pH to 5.2 in the kettle."

That suggests that the water may stay relatively untouched, no?


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[homoeccentricus]

Referencing BLAM:

"...pH drops to 5.8-5.9 in the mash, with mineral acid used to drop the pH to 5.2 in the kettle."

That suggests that the water may stay relatively untouched, no?


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I have to admit that I did not quite get that part. Does it mean there's really high levels of bicarbonates in the water?

[homoeccentricus]

What is Rochefort 4? Is this an original of yours based on the concept of a hypothetical Rochefort table beer?


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OK, I admit, this is a teaser for my upcoming book "Cloning Beers From Parallel Universes".

[RPIScotty]

That's kind of how I read it. They aren't using very dark malts in high quantities and their color is coming from dark sugars and the boil so it stands to reason that if their mash pH is high it is likely due to minimal treatment of the source water.




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[RPIScotty]

I like the idea of a darker table beer.

I've been contemplating a recipe for a Belgian Mild, which would essentially be a lower gravity Dubbel with less sugar/syrup and more specialty malts.


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[homoeccentricus]

This is an extrapolation from the color of Rochefort 10->8->6->4  : 90->63->40->33 (EBC)

[denny]

That looks a lot like a variation of Herman Holtrop's recipe.  As far as "clone" recipes go, it's probably the best one out there.  I make it as a 6 or 8 often.  Since all the color comes from the syrup, I trat the water for the grains only.  That way you don't need to worry about pH rising from dark malts.

[homoeccentricus]

That looks a lot like a variation of Herman Holtrop's recipe.

Aha, indeed! So now we also know where Stan Hieronymus gets his inspiration from!