Author Topic: Rochefort 4  (Read 11804 times)

RPIScotty

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Rochefort 4
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2016, 09:06:49 am »
Well Stan got his info from Rochefort!


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Offline denny

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2016, 09:17:54 am »
Well Stan got his info from Rochefort!


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And so did Herman.  That recipe has been around for over 15 years.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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RPIScotty

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2016, 09:19:27 am »

Well Stan got his info from Rochefort!


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And so did Herman.  That recipe has been around for over 15 years.
i've been meaning to brew Herman's recipe


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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2016, 09:19:32 am »
And so did Herman.  That recipe has been around for over 15 years.


I need to brew that soon. Been too long !
Jon H.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2016, 09:29:38 am »
Not sure though whether the Carafa special  and special B in Herman's recipe are in the original Rochefort recipe.
Frank P.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2016, 09:37:55 am »
Not sure though whether the Carafa special  and special B in Herman's recipe are in the original Rochefort recipe.


Hard to say, but BLAM does mention that Rochefort uses crystal malts (doesn't specify which). Regardless, the recipe is a pretty darn good approximation.
Jon H.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2016, 09:44:16 am »
I based myself upon Stan's presentation at the AHA conference: “Two of the pale malts, two of the sugars, two hop varieties, two yeast strains . . . two of this and two of that . . . we like to keep it simple.”  - Brother Antoine
Frank P.

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RPIScotty

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2016, 09:53:34 am »

I think the interesting thing right under the surface in Hermans recipe is tailoring the ingredients to match flavor and not necessarily "ape-ing" the brewery's process.

His approach suggests that you can keep your personal process the same and alter the recipe that create the desired end product rather than just duplicating everything from the brewery and ending up with something that doesn't taste as authentic.





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« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:55:23 am by RPIScotty »

Offline 69franx

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2016, 10:08:35 am »
Quick ingredient question here. Is there a good sub here in the states for the candi syrup. I dont see anything listed quite that dark. I have no experience with any of the sugars, just looking at what beersmith has listed. Plugging all this into beersmith, I get 11.5 SRM compared to the listed roughly 17 SRM(after converting EBC.) Looks like another fun recipe I would try out in the future, so just wondering...
Frank L.
Fermenting: Nothing (ugh!)
Conditioning: Nothing (UGH!)
In keg: Nothing (Double UGH!)
In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)

RPIScotty

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2016, 10:12:39 am »
I think it was a typo.


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Offline denny

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2016, 10:22:18 am »
Quick ingredient question here. Is there a good sub here in the states for the candi syrup. I dont see anything listed quite that dark. I have no experience with any of the sugars, just looking at what beersmith has listed. Plugging all this into beersmith, I get 11.5 SRM compared to the listed roughly 17 SRM(after converting EBC.) Looks like another fun recipe I would try out in the future, so just wondering...

I use D120 from candisyrup.com
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline 69franx

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2016, 10:23:14 am »
Gotcha, not sure when I will get around to this, but that did throw me off
Frank L.
Fermenting: Nothing (ugh!)
Conditioning: Nothing (UGH!)
In keg: Nothing (Double UGH!)
In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)

Offline denny

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2016, 10:24:56 am »
Here is Herman's original post about the recipe and how it came to be...

From: "Herman Holtrop" <h.e.holtrop at zonnet.nl>
Subject: Rochefort 8 Cloning contest

Rochefort 8 Cloning contest

Hi you all! Last year Jan Willem van Groenigen posted a message asking for
directions for cloning Rochefort 8 (HBD #3910). Since this didn't result
in a satisfactory answer, the users of the Dutch Hobbybrewing forum
(http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl) put together a joint
effort for designing a clone recipe for Rochefort 8. A lot of research went
into it from all participating brewers and some of our own experiences were
taken into account. After putting together the recipe, we organized a
contest as to who could brew up the best clone. As the proud winner of this
contest I would like to share with you the results of this competition.
We noticed that there is still not much known about Rochefort, so we hope
you'll find this interesting.

The objective was for all brewers to brew the same recipe in the same
manner. However, all brewers had slightly different ingredients from
different suppliers. After brewing and some 4 months of maturation, the
beers were judged together with the original Rochefort. This event took
place on February 15 at De Maasland brewery in Oss, the Netherlands. A total
of 15 people from all over the Netherlands and Belgium came together to meet
for the first time in real, a very cool experience on its own.

On tasting day 10 beers were brought in, plus the original, totalling 11.
The judging panel consisted of all brewers, one of whom was a
certified beer judge (BKMG, which is comparable to BJCP) completed with one
neutral certified judge. In between the tasting, we received a tour of the
brewery from brewmaster Frans. he also took care of serving us with all
kinds of good food, very necessary when tasting such strong beers.

With the exception of one soured sample (which nevertheless was quite
tasty), all beers came quite close to the original, although all were a bit
too dark. When we started this whole cloning contest, Rochefort beers with
the original Special B were still available at shops. However, the beer we
used at the tasting was of more recent date, using the new Special B from
maltster Dingemans. Some clones were made with the original DWC Special "B"
(including the winner), others with the replacing Dingemans version.There is
a surely a different taste to it now.

The winning beer was made exactly following the recipe below. Fermentation
temperature was 21-23C. No water treatment, my water is 10D. For more info
about water treatment regarding the Rochefort area, i refer to HBD #4116 &
HBD #4115 (article by Jacques Bertens & Jan Willem van Groenigen).

For 10 liters, 1.080 OG, 32 IBU, 70 EBC :

Maltbill
% Amount Malt
70.4 2375 grams Pilsnermalt (Belgian)
11.1 375 grams Caramunich 120 EBC
1.5 50 grams Carafa special dehusked 800 EBC
3.7 125 grams Special "B"
3.7 125 grams Flaked Corn
9.6 325 grams Dark Candysugar

Hops (flowers) & Spices
Styrian Goldings 23 grams 4.2% 75 minutes
Hallertau Hersbrucker 10 grams 3.5% 30 minutes
Hallertau Hersbrucker 5 grams 3.5% 5 minutes
Coreanderseed crushed 5 grams 5 minutes

Yeast: Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II or recultered from a bottle of
Rochefort. The winning recipe used the Wyeast.

Mashing: 3 liters per kg malt. Flaked corn boiled separately before adding
to the mash.

60-62C 30 minutes
68C 60 minutes
75C 5 minutes

Sparging with water at 78C

A promash recipe file is available at the following location:
http://www.geocities.com/iluvhops/brouwsel/rochefort8.html ,
which will make life easier for all you non-metric brewers. At this
location you will also find some extra info (references etc.) together with
a copy of this post.

Below, I listed some findings based upon variations in the recipes. Of
course, this wasn't set up in a randomized, replicated fashion, but I think
it might be of interest nonetheless:

1) The use of chocolate malt instead of the dehusked Carafa resulted in
a bit of a licorice taste or even a bit of a burned taste.
2) If you can't get Carafa Dehusked, look for a debittered/dehusked
dark chocolate/Black malt. It can also be had from Weyermann
3) The use of the original yeast instead of the Wyeast didn't change
much in the tasting profile. Which makes sense, because they're said to
be similar.
4) The second placed beer (Theo Verschoor) was fermented at 28C,
which resulted in a very strong banana and fruit aroma!
5) The third placed beer (Edwin Hoogedoorn) tasted very close to the second,
but
had a less pronounced aroma, because of a lower temperature fermentation.
6) To get a color more resembling the original, it is suggested to
slightly bring down the amount of Carafa.
7) Some beers had problems during bottle-conditioning. When bottling
make sure to do it in time or to add a healthy yeast.
8) Samples with added (non-Rochefort) yeast for conditioning did not
seem to result in a different taste.

All in all a very cool experience, which is to be repeated by a joint Orval
cloning contest. A recipe of which has already been agreed upon. :-)

Take care,
Herman Holtrop
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline 69franx

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2016, 10:31:05 am »
Thanks Denny, I have seen you post a link to the recipe before, and copied it into beersmith, but I either did not read, or dont remember the back story. Very cool indeed
Frank L.
Fermenting: Nothing (ugh!)
Conditioning: Nothing (UGH!)
In keg: Nothing (Double UGH!)
In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Rochefort 4
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2016, 12:08:07 pm »
I think it was a typo.


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Nope. 1900 ebc.
Frank P.

Staggering on the shoulders of giant dwarfs.