[Phil_M]

I plan on starting fermentation in the mid 60's, with no lid, just some foil over the top of the bucket. After a few days I'll put the lid on and install an airlock, and start ramping the temp up a degree or two a day till it hits FG.

I forgot to add this. WLP565 appears to be pressure sensitive. I always start the fermentation with just loose foil covering the hole until a few days in. I've never had the "Dupont Stall" fermenting in the mid-60s with this method.

Yep. There is an upcoming Experimental Brewing test that covers this.

Yep, that's exactly why I'm trying the foil. Not exactly sure how I'll do it, but the goal is to prevent pressure buildup while still keeping things sanitary. I'm more concerned about fruit flies than wild yeast/microbes honestly.

[dilluh98]

Drew's article was where I first encountered this:

https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

To that end, the 'Saison Experimentale' recipe toward the end of the article is dead simple and delicious - I've made it several times and honestly, it's right up there with any other saison recipe I've brewed.

[Hand of Dom]

IMO, this is the best BDSA recipe I've ever found or brewed.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Belgian Abbeyll (Wyeast #1762)
Yeast Starter: No, I'm lazy and use two packs
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: no
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.078
Final Gravity: 1.018
IBU: 26.2
Boiling Time (Minutes): 75
Color: 27.6
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 23 days @ 69-70
Additional Fermentation: Bottle condition for at least two months
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days @69-70
Tasting Notes: It's everything you would expect from our monk brewing friends... great beer!

10.92 lb Pilsner (2 row) Belgian (2.0 SRM) 70.24%
1.73 lb Caramunich Malt (46.0 SRM) 11.13%
0.58 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) 3.75%
0.58 lb Special B Malt (114.0 SRM) 3.75%
0.23 lb Carafa special dehusked (302.0 SRM) 1.47%
1.50 lb Dark Belgian candy sugar (100 SRM) 9.65 %
1.73 oz Styrian Goldings [4.20%] Boil 60 min
0.75 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.50%] Boil 30 min
0.39 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.50%] Boil 5 min
0.38 oz coriander seed Boil 5 min (Crush first)

MASH PROFILE

Protein rest Add 12.64 qt water at 156.2F to get 142F for 30min
Saccrification Add 11.23 qt water at 170.2F to get 154F for 60 min
Mash out Add 9.83 qt water at 205.6 to get 168F for 5 min
Begin Vorlauf then drain Mash Tun
Sparge with 0.73 gallons of water at 168F

Carb with 4.83 oz corn sugar

This is the award winning recipe by Hermann Holtrop from a Rochefort 8 clone comp that was held in the Netherlands. I think it's very close to the original Rochefort 8. A little darker then the original, but just as tasty... enjoy! If you can't find Carafa Special, Carafa l (337.0 SRM) will work well but will be a bit darker so scale back a bit.

  Hi Denny.  I completely agree, it was pretty much the reason I made the jump from extract to all grain.

[HoosierBrew]

Drew's article was where I first encountered this:

https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

To that end, the 'Saison Experimentale' recipe toward the end of the article is dead simple and delicious - I've made it several times and honestly, it's right up there with any other saison recipe I've brewed.

Yep. Great article - learned a lot from it.

[Hand of Dom]

I plan on starting fermentation in the mid 60's, with no lid, just some foil over the top of the bucket. After a few days I'll put the lid on and install an airlock, and start ramping the temp up a degree or two a day till it hits FG.

I forgot to add this. WLP565 appears to be pressure sensitive. I always start the fermentation with just loose foil covering the hole until a few days in. I've never had the "Dupont Stall" fermenting in the mid-60s with this method.

Yep. There is an upcoming Experimental Brewing test that covers this.

Yep, that's exactly why I'm trying the foil. Not exactly sure how I'll do it, but the goal is to prevent pressure buildup while still keeping things sanitary. I'm more concerned about fruit flies than wild yeast/microbes honestly.

As a british brewer, I don't use carboys, I use buckets.  If you were going to take this approach with a bucket, would you forgo the bucket lid, and cover with foil, or would you just cover the hole in the lid (about 1cm diameter), where I'd normally fit the airlock?

[denny]

I think either would be fine.

[klickitat jim]

I have really come to appreciate the value in focusing on a style until you learn to nail it. Some styles take about 3 brew days with help. Others take much longer, especially if you are lost when you start. It took me 3 winters to finally produce a marginally "excellent example of the style" of Munich Helles. It might be four more years before it becomes "world class" if ever.

But you are on the right track, OP. Over the next year you may find yourself picking just one of those styles you listed, and really digging in to it.

[charles1968]

Edit- sorry, realised on reading through that you've already brewed now, but here's what I wrote anyway.

Saison - the distinctive Saison flavour comes from the yeasts, so I'd recommend omitting strongly flavoured hops if you want to explore saison styles. Wyeast 3711, for instance, has a subtle champagne-like flavour that is easily overwhelmed or muddied by strong hops. It ferments to Brut-like dryness and really benefits from good spritzy carbonation. However, a lot of brewers hate it and much prefer the more typical complex Belgian flavours of Dupont (which you can cultivate easily from bottles). Either way, 100% pilsner malt works fine or some combination of continental-style lager malts and wheat as long as colour is pale. Give a few weeks to fully attenuate on the yeast (saison yeasts can take ages to finish) and mature.

For a hoppy pale ale that isn't aggressively bitter, a recipe that's very popular on jimsbeerkit is Seymour Citra Gold, pasted below. I've made this twice and nothing I've brewed has been better received. Lowish abv make it a good session beer. I'd describe it as midatlantic in style as the grain bill is typical of British golden ales.

SEYMOUR CITRA GOLD
A light, crisp, refreshing, citrusy and hoppy American ale.

6 US gallons = 5 Imperial Gallons = 22.7 Litres

GRAINBILL:
97% = 8.54 lb = 3.87 kg, English Pale Malt
3% = .26 lb = 118 g, Oats (from your kitchen: porridge, flaked, rolled, quick, pinhead, etc)

MASH at 150°F/65.6°C for 90 minutes

BOIL 60 minutes, adding a pinch of gypsum, add a little orange or clementine peel at 5 min remaining, if you got it.

HOPS:
.4 oz = 11.3 g, Magnum, 60 minutes
.65 oz = 18.4 g, Citra, 15 minutes
.65 oz = 18.4 g, Citra, Dry hops added to secondary fermentation

YEAST:
US-05/Chico, ferment warm around 70°F/21°C, don't filter nor use any clarifying agents, some chalky haze is nice.

STATS (assuming 75% mash efficiency and 75% yeast attenuation):
OG: 1043
FG: 1011
ABV: 4.1%
IBU: 31
COLOUR: 4°SRM/8°EBC

[charles1968]

I forgot to add this. WLP565 appears to be pressure sensitive. I always start the fermentation with just loose foil covering the hole until a few days in. I've never had the "Dupont Stall" fermenting in the mid-60s with this method.

I reckon an airlock can't exert a measurable increase in pressure. However, it can dramatically lower oxygen level on the inside, so the saison stall might be something to do with the yeast's oxygen / ergosterol needs. Fermenting with a loose cover would solve that.

[Phil_M]

I plan on starting fermentation in the mid 60's, with no lid, just some foil over the top of the bucket. After a few days I'll put the lid on and install an airlock, and start ramping the temp up a degree or two a day till it hits FG.

A bit late of a response, but I just ended up setting the lid on the bucket and not sealing it. There's an airlock in the lid, it's not bubbling so I'm assuming the CO₂ is venting via the lid.
I forgot to add this. WLP565 appears to be pressure sensitive. I always start the fermentation with just loose foil covering the hole until a few days in. I've never had the "Dupont Stall" fermenting in the mid-60s with this method.

Yep. There is an upcoming Experimental Brewing test that covers this.

Yep, that's exactly why I'm trying the foil. Not exactly sure how I'll do it, but the goal is to prevent pressure buildup while still keeping things sanitary. I'm more concerned about fruit flies than wild yeast/microbes honestly.

As a british brewer, I don't use carboys, I use buckets.  If you were going to take this approach with a bucket, would you forgo the bucket lid, and cover with foil, or would you just cover the hole in the lid (about 1cm diameter), where I'd normally fit the airlock?

[Hand of Dom]

Edit- sorry, realised on reading through that you've already brewed now, but here's what I wrote anyway.

Saison - the distinctive Saison flavour comes from the yeasts, so I'd recommend omitting strongly flavoured hops if you want to explore saison styles. Wyeast 3711, for instance, has a subtle champagne-like flavour that is easily overwhelmed or muddied by strong hops. It ferments to Brut-like dryness and really benefits from good spritzy carbonation. However, a lot of brewers hate it and much prefer the more typical complex Belgian flavours of Dupont (which you can cultivate easily from bottles). Either way, 100% pilsner malt works fine or some combination of continental-style lager malts and wheat as long as colour is pale. Give a few weeks to fully attenuate on the yeast (saison yeasts can take ages to finish) and mature.

For a hoppy pale ale that isn't aggressively bitter, a recipe that's very popular on jimsbeerkit is Seymour Citra Gold, pasted below. I've made this twice and nothing I've brewed has been better received. Lowish abv make it a good session beer. I'd describe it as midatlantic in style as the grain bill is typical of British golden ales.

SEYMOUR CITRA GOLD
A light, crisp, refreshing, citrusy and hoppy American ale.

6 US gallons = 5 Imperial Gallons = 22.7 Litres

GRAINBILL:
97% = 8.54 lb = 3.87 kg, English Pale Malt
3% = .26 lb = 118 g, Oats (from your kitchen: porridge, flaked, rolled, quick, pinhead, etc)

MASH at 150°F/65.6°C for 90 minutes

BOIL 60 minutes, adding a pinch of gypsum, add a little orange or clementine peel at 5 min remaining, if you got it.

HOPS:
.4 oz = 11.3 g, Magnum, 60 minutes
.65 oz = 18.4 g, Citra, 15 minutes
.65 oz = 18.4 g, Citra, Dry hops added to secondary fermentation

YEAST:
US-05/Chico, ferment warm around 70°F/21°C, don't filter nor use any clarifying agents, some chalky haze is nice.

STATS (assuming 75% mash efficiency and 75% yeast attenuation):
OG: 1043
FG: 1011
ABV: 4.1%
IBU: 31
COLOUR: 4°SRM/8°EBC

Thanks Charles