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Author Topic: My mash in and batch sparge process  (Read 8383 times)

Offline davidw

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2016, 06:21:01 am »
Denny, I can tell you specifically what type of lautering system would benefit from letting the grain bed settle: mine. I have a pair of original Zymico Bazooka T's in a 70 quart cooler that feed a central manifold in an H configuration. Were I to add sparge water, stir, and "let 'er rip" there's a 50/50 chance I would end up with a stuck sparge. So allowing the grain bed to settle and develop is necessary for my system. A grain bed that is given time to settle creates a natural filter and is advantageous in a couple ways.

First, it allows the sugars in the grist to dissolve into the liquid, time is a factor in solubility of sugar in a liquid as it reaches concentration equilibrium between the grist and liquid. This is a minor concern as the value is low and on the homebrew scale nearly negligible. And while I have noted a 1-2 point increase in efficiency when allowing 5 minutes to pass in order for the grain bed to establish, (years ago when I noted every time, temp and volume), the more significant result was and is consistency in efficiency.

The second advantage is clear beer. Using the grain bed as a natural filter does just that, filters the liquid extract for clear run off into the kettle. A vigorous boil, quick chill, and after 2-3 weeks in the ferementers I rack directly into the keg(s) and my beer is crystal clear from day one. No cold crashing necessary. This is rarely the case when I use my small-batch mashtun, a 5 gallon round cooler with a SS braid, and with that system I don't wait for the grain bed to settle. Those beers have always needed time to clear.

So again I will state: it depends on your mash tun/system set up. Seems obvious not everyone is driving the same car.


david
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Offline denny

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2016, 09:12:06 am »
Nice video, pretty much identical setup and process to mine. After the recent brulosophy experiment with a 9-gallon (surely a typo??) vorlauf produced much clearer beer than the non-vorlaufed beer, I now take more time and care with the vorlauf and try to get the wort clear before running off.

Cooler boxes are great for holding temp, but I put extra insulation around mine when I mash overnight - a couple of blankets or coats work fine.

I missed that vorlauf test, but based on hundreds of batches of experience, I don't believe it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline denny

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2016, 09:14:11 am »
Denny, I can tell you specifically what type of lautering system would benefit from letting the grain bed settle: mine. I have a pair of original Zymico Bazooka T's in a 70 quart cooler that feed a central manifold in an H configuration. Were I to add sparge water, stir, and "let 'er rip" there's a 50/50 chance I would end up with a stuck sparge. So allowing the grain bed to settle and develop is necessary for my system. A grain bed that is given time to settle creates a natural filter and is advantageous in a couple ways.

First, it allows the sugars in the grist to dissolve into the liquid, time is a factor in solubility of sugar in a liquid as it reaches concentration equilibrium between the grist and liquid. This is a minor concern as the value is low and on the homebrew scale nearly negligible. And while I have noted a 1-2 point increase in efficiency when allowing 5 minutes to pass in order for the grain bed to establish, (years ago when I noted every time, temp and volume), the more significant result was and is consistency in efficiency.

The second advantage is clear beer. Using the grain bed as a natural filter does just that, filters the liquid extract for clear run off into the kettle. A vigorous boil, quick chill, and after 2-3 weeks in the ferementers I rack directly into the keg(s) and my beer is crystal clear from day one. No cold crashing necessary. This is rarely the case when I use my small-batch mashtun, a 5 gallon round cooler with a SS braid, and with that system I don't wait for the grain bed to settle. Those beers have always needed time to clear.

So again I will state: it depends on your mash tun/system set up. Seems obvious not everyone is driving the same car.


david

David, I understand that with your system a wait is worth it.  But having experimented dozens of times, I got neither higher efficiency nor clearer beer by adding the rest time.  I average 83% efficiency and even without the rest the grain bed forms a great filter.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline chumley

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2016, 09:43:41 am »
I was expecting more bongs and hobbit posters.

Offline denny

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2016, 10:12:44 am »
I was expecting more bongs and hobbit posters.

:)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline dilluh98

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2016, 10:44:07 am »
I was expecting more bongs and hobbit posters.

:::coffee spit take:::

trentm

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2016, 04:34:09 pm »
I get a lot of questions about how I do these, so I made a short video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfOlhTCqyNk&feature=youtu.be

Pretty much the same process my friend taught/showed me circa '96 ish.  IIRC he used a custom crimped stainless steel mesh clamped to a tube.  There was an article by Ken Schwartz that explains the math behind the madness.  I don't think the web site is up any more but found the summary at HBD archive - http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3105.html.

Offline kgs

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2016, 10:06:00 pm »
It was very early and I had to get ready for work, so I watched the video with auto-captions and at 2x speed. Highly recommended. Denny stirs maniacally, waves his arms, vorlaufs like a maniac. My favorite auto-caption: "porous limestone and stereos same time helps reduce the chance of snowfall." If that ain't classic hippy, I don't know what is.

This was a fun and useful video (even at normal speed with regular audio).
K.G. Schneider
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Offline denny

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2016, 09:55:00 am »
I get a lot of questions about how I do these, so I made a short video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfOlhTCqyNk&feature=youtu.be

Pretty much the same process my friend taught/showed me circa '96 ish.  IIRC he used a custom crimped stainless steel mesh clamped to a tube.  There was an article by Ken Schwartz that explains the math behind the madness.  I don't think the web site is up any more but found the summary at HBD archive - http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3105.html.

I actually shot Ken data when he was developing those. 
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline denny

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2016, 09:55:51 am »
It was very early and I had to get ready for work, so I watched the video with auto-captions and at 2x speed. Highly recommended. Denny stirs maniacally, waves his arms, vorlaufs like a maniac. My favorite auto-caption: "porous limestone and stereos same time helps reduce the chance of snowfall." If that ain't classic hippy, I don't know what is.

This was a fun and useful video (even at normal speed with regular audio).

Is that what I said?  ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline kgs

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2016, 10:22:18 am »
It was very early and I had to get ready for work, so I watched the video with auto-captions and at 2x speed. Highly recommended. Denny stirs maniacally, waves his arms, vorlaufs like a maniac. My favorite auto-caption: "porous limestone and stereos same time helps reduce the chance of snowfall." If that ain't classic hippy, I don't know what is.

This was a fun and useful video (even at normal speed with regular audio).

Is that what I said?  ;)

Not at all! This particular gem began at around 1:40 (it's probably different every time? I don't know how autotranslate works in YouTube). You are actually saying, "Pouring and stirring at the same time really helps reduce the chance of dough balls."

Interestingly I only just now listened to the video with the sound on, but the narration isn't necessary because the action in this video is so illustrative and well-timed.

I don't stir nearly that much -- something I may revisit.
K.G. Schneider
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2016, 04:49:42 pm »
Denny, what's the gap on your mill?

I woefully undershot my target pre-boil gravity today, first time being careful to try and collect data with the new cooler tun. I'm hoping all I need to do is crush finer.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

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Offline dilluh98

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2016, 06:53:38 pm »
I think Denny can be quoted as saying, "crush until you're scared." 

Offline Pricelessbrewing

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2016, 10:57:37 pm »
Crush till you get a stuck sparge. For biab, crush till you see flour.

Offline charles1968

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Re: My mash in and batch sparge process
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2016, 03:42:35 am »
I missed that vorlauf test, but based on hundreds of batches of experience, I don't believe it.

Link below. The experiment was meant to test whether skipping vorlauf causes astringency (there was no difference). Effect on clarity was unexpected.

Wort:


Beer:


 http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/22/the-vorlauf-effect-pt-1-does-it-make-a-difference-exbeeriment-results/


"the non-vorlauf batch was left alone while the other batch had approximately 9 gallons of sweet wort pulled from the bottom of the tun and gently placed back on top of the mash."

I think the most I've ever used for a vorlauf is about 1 gallon. 9 gallons seems very unusual.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:45:45 am by charles1968 »