Author Topic: acrid/ashy character?  (Read 1226 times)

Offline gman23

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acrid/ashy character?
« on: March 11, 2016, 09:55:53 PM »
My current black lager is on tap now and has what I would describe as a slightly acrid and ashy character to it. After the palate adjusts it is less noticeable and the character isn't enough to significantly hurt the beer overall. It could be a flavor that I am just overly sensitive to as my palate is kind of inconsistent. I am curious what could be the cause.

I had a mash pH of 5.57. I used baking soda to raise the mash pH
The only roasted malt in here is Carafa III special at 3.8% of the grist
W34/70 yeast fermented in the low 50s
FG was 1.013

Let me know if any additional information would be helpful.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 09:57:39 PM by goschman »
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Offline euge

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 11:32:22 PM »
Does it have Black Patent in it? Because that is what BP tastes like to me.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 11:32:41 PM »
My current black lager is on tap now and has what I would describe as a slightly acrid and ashy character to it. After the palate adjusts it is less noticeable and the character isn't enough to significantly hurt the beer overall. It could be a flavor that I am just overly sensitive to as my palate is kind of inconsistent. I am curious what could be the cause.

I had a mash pH of 5.57. I used baking soda to raise the mash pH
The only roasted malt in here is Carafa III special at 3.8% of the grist
W34/70 yeast fermented in the low 50s
FG was 1.013

Let me know if any additional information would be helpful.

im at a loss based upon what you described as your recipe and process. that's very little roast anyway, and with that PH you should have been AOK.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 11:37:06 PM »
Dumb questions so I apologize - I assume you entered your grist, lovibonds, and volumes into Brunwater correctly?  Weighed out salts correctly? Also, I learned a new lesson on Brunwater this week that I should've figured out by now- that it's more accurate if you subtract your boiloff rate from your sparge volume in the software. What is your boiloff rate? Martin said that higher boiloff rates will concentrate the water additions, which seems obvious but wasn't to me. Concentrated additions could = undesireable results. Also, I'm surprised that Carafa III @ 3.8% would ever come off as acrid and unpleasant, having so little roast. The last stout I brewed had almost 11% of combined chocolate and roasted barley and was like chocolatey espresso. What profile did you go with - black balanced ? Just wondering.



Edited for grammar and dumbassery.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 11:47:19 PM by HoosierBrew »
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Offline gman23

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 11:56:09 PM »
My volumes, measurements, and lovibind figures should be accurate. I don't account for my boil off with bru'n water which is normally about 11% or just less than a gallon for a one hour boil. I used the black balanced profile.

I may have a pint tonight and pay closer attention to what I am tasting. Like I said it is pretty minor but still noticeable. The recipe is very close to a Schwartzbier for what it's worth.
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

Fermenting: Imperial Porter
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2016, 12:01:00 AM »
My volumes, measurements, and lovibind figures should be accurate. I don't account for my boil off with bru'n water which is normally about 11% or just less than a gallon for a one hour boil. I used the black balanced profile.

I may have a pint tonight and pay closer attention to what I am tasting. Like I said it is pretty minor but still noticeable. The recipe is very close to a Schwartzbier for what it's worth.


Try it again tonight and report back. I'm curious if you perceive it the same way . I know I perceive my beers differently on different days.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2016, 12:03:03 AM »
My volumes, measurements, and lovibind figures should be accurate. I don't account for my boil off with bru'n water which is normally about 11% or just less than a gallon for a one hour boil. I used the black balanced profile.

I may have a pint tonight and pay closer attention to what I am tasting. Like I said it is pretty minor but still noticeable. The recipe is very close to a Schwartzbier for what it's worth.




Try it again tonight and report back. I'm curious if you perceive it the same way . I know I perceive my beers differently on different days.


+1   just curious..how much ppm of sulfate?
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
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Offline gman23

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2016, 12:06:57 AM »
Well I just poured a sample and am maybe getting just the slightest note. I don't brew many lagers. I am getting a pretty crisp finish and maybe just a touch of sulphur that is maybe affecting my perception.

I am glad that I am not alone in beers tasting different at separate tastings. This has been a part of the challenge with my palate.
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

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Offline gman23

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2016, 12:08:13 AM »
Not sure what so4 was but it should be very close to whatever is recommended on black balanced. Oh wait I used brown balanced at 25 srm...
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2016, 12:29:12 AM »
I am glad that I am not alone in beers tasting different at separate tastings. This has been a part of the challenge with my palate.


I'll tell you - I have periodic sinus/allergy problems and I've brewed many a batch of APA or AIPA where I was totally pissed that I'd oxidized the hop character (initially). I consider APA and AIPA a failure if the hop aroma isn't excellent, even if it's great otherwise. Don't know how many times that the next day I tried it, the aroma was fantastic. The slight sulfur note you get from some lager strains can add a different dimension to the equation as well. I'm sure it'll end up being a good beer, Chris.   
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Offline yso191

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2016, 12:30:12 AM »
I've gotten that flavor/sensation from (I think) Brown Malt.  It you are describing what I am talking about, it goes away with a little time...say a month or so.
Steve
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Offline gman23

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2016, 12:42:29 AM »
Thanks guys. There is some Amber malt in here which I am not terribly familiar with. That is the only ingredient in this recipe that I haven't used extensively. 
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

Fermenting: Imperial Porter
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2016, 12:45:34 AM »
Thanks guys. There is some Amber malt in here which I am not terribly familiar with. That is the only ingredient in this recipe that I haven't used extensively. 


Amber malt is roastier to me than Carafa III.
Jon H.

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Re: acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2016, 01:19:11 AM »

Dumb questions so I apologize - I assume you entered your grist, lovibonds, and volumes into Brunwater correctly?  Weighed out salts correctly? Also, I learned a new lesson on Brunwater this week that I should've figured out by now- that it's more accurate if you subtract your boiloff rate from your sparge volume in the software. What is your boiloff rate? Martin said that higher boiloff rates will concentrate the water additions, which seems obvious but wasn't to me. Concentrated additions could = undesireable results. Also, I'm surprised that Carafa III @ 3.8% would ever come off as acrid and unpleasant, having so little roast. The last stout I brewed had almost 11% of combined chocolate and roasted barley and was like chocolatey espresso. What profile did you go with - black balanced ? Just wondering.



Edited for grammar and dumbassery.

Can you elaborate on the Bru'n Water trick a bit?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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acrid/ashy character?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2016, 01:25:29 AM »

Dumb questions so I apologize - I assume you entered your grist, lovibonds, and volumes into Brunwater correctly?  Weighed out salts correctly? Also, I learned a new lesson on Brunwater this week that I should've figured out by now- that it's more accurate if you subtract your boiloff rate from your sparge volume in the software. What is your boiloff rate? Martin said that higher boiloff rates will concentrate the water additions, which seems obvious but wasn't to me. Concentrated additions could = undesireable results. Also, I'm surprised that Carafa III @ 3.8% would ever come off as acrid and unpleasant, having so little roast. The last stout I brewed had almost 11% of combined chocolate and roasted barley and was like chocolatey espresso. What profile did you go with - black balanced ? Just wondering.



Edited for grammar and dumbassery.

Can you elaborate on the Bru'n Water trick a bit?

During conversation of salt additions and concentrations, it became evident that perhaps one could end up with a more concentrated mineral adjusted wort because of amount of boil off. To compensate, it may be prudent to reduce sparge water by the amount of your projected boil off, therefore reducing your total mineral additions to desired levels.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest