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Author Topic: When "hot" breweries get stale  (Read 6854 times)

Offline Bob357

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2016, 04:24:09 pm »
Not sure about bars and what they have on tap because I don't drink in bars as a rule. As far as breweries that used to be hot, I buy more of their beers than new fangled ones. Stone, Sierra Nevada and Lagunitas more than any others.

My youngest daughter lives in Salem, OR and has worked her way through her post-graduate studies in a small brewery/restaurant. She and her other half are both beer geeks, so when we visit them they always have a plan to hit a bunch of brewpubs and/or tap rooms. The last couple of visits we have gone to Newport, OR and enjoyed Rogue's food and beer. Also on these trips we ventured north a bit and visited both Pelican and Rusty Truck. While I enjoy beers from the latter 2, I prefer Rogues offerings.

Last summer we spent several days in Bend with the kids and visited many of the local breweries there. Again, I enjoyed the variety of offerings, but still found my preferences to include Deschutes.

All in all, I believe it's all a matter of personal preference. Before discovering craft beer in about 2007 I was an MGD guy, so maybe still enjoying the variety more than many.
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Offline BrewingRover

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2016, 05:45:21 pm »
As far as I'm concerned, North Coast has a pretty rock solid line-up.  I'm not sure why you think they should change something or keep coming out with new beers.

I don't think they should change, I just wonder why I don't see their beers in bars anymore. I do feel like they could figure out a better way to use the iconic "Acme" brand, as I haven't seen it in years.


I see them on tap somewhat regularly around here (I don't actually go out all that much).  However, I think that the landscape has become so crowded that you're not usually going to see two or more beers from any single brewery on tap unless there's a special event of some sort.   And as far as it goes, I don't think I've ever seen ACME IPA in these parts.  Pranqster, Bro Thelonius, Old Rasputin.  Those are the ones I'll see.  Red Seal, too.

I used to be able to get Acme IPA around the corner, but I think it got squeezed out by all the other beer coming in. It's a solid beer that I enjoy when I can get it. I imagine North Coast is pretty much maxed out on capacity. I know Bear Republic had capacity problems, as they pulled out of Illinois when they couldn't meet demand.
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Offline case thrower

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2016, 06:21:41 pm »
I think it also has to do with scale and size.  When these breweries started, they were very small operations and the owners/brewers had to be hands on.  As time goes on and the operation expands, so does the responsibility to run the company and to respond to that, there is a lot more delegation.  The guy who brewed and bottled and everything else now has the job of running a much larger company and so can't do the brewing and bottling, etc.  Now he has a 'head brewer' he sees occasionally.  Sure, he's emailing the guy all the time, but it's not the same thing as standing at the kettle brewing the beer himself.  The larger the company gets, the more layers between the actual brewing and running the company.  Then expand to multiple locations.  Think Jim Koch personally supervises every batch?
More layers means more people and that can make a big difference.  A couple of years ago, I took one of my favorite seasonal beers to the brewery because it wasn't right as far as the taste, smell or color.  It was a good beer, but it was not the same beer it had been in previous years.  The PR department swore they hadn't changed the recipe.  I later found out the head brewer who had been there for several years left and this beer was one of his replacement's first brews.  Things happen.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2016, 07:04:51 pm »
This is really what the craft beer scene has turned into - everyone's always looking for the next big thing. Once someone hits on it, then everyone and their brother rush out to put their own spin on it. Once upon a time, most craft breweries has 4-6 regular beers and had one or maybe two rotating seasonals. Now, even the lynchpin beers of most brands get changed every few years, and 2/3 of their line are one-offs or limited-release. Far fewer breweries are saying "this is what we are" and setting anchor (pun intended) with a clearly identifiable portfolio of steady beers.

For example, once upon a time Otter Creek was my favorite brewery. They had a solid lineup of beers, including a fantastic APA, and a killer Porter. Ever since Long Trail took them over, 2/3 of their beers are either one-offs or seasonals, and over half are IPA's. None of their regular lineup that I'd been drinking for 15+ years are around any more. It's like that with more and more breweries nowadays.

This is the scene that the fickle craft beer drinkers have created. It's a shame, in my opinion.
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Offline pete b

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 07:55:01 pm »
I appreciate the choice we have now but sometimes I miss when I had a favorite beer (bass ale) and drank it 90% of the time.
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Offline fmader

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2016, 08:29:35 pm »
This is really what the craft beer scene has turned into - everyone's always looking for the next big thing. Once someone hits on it, then everyone and their brother rush out to put their own spin on it. Once upon a time, most craft breweries has 4-6 regular beers and had one or maybe two rotating seasonals. Now, even the lynchpin beers of most brands get changed every few years, and 2/3 of their line are one-offs or limited-release. Far fewer breweries are saying "this is what we are" and setting anchor (pun intended) with a clearly identifiable portfolio of steady beers.

For example, once upon a time Otter Creek was my favorite brewery. They had a solid lineup of beers, including a fantastic APA, and a killer Porter. Ever since Long Trail took them over, 2/3 of their beers are either one-offs or seasonals, and over half are IPA's. None of their regular lineup that I'd been drinking for 15+ years are around any more. It's like that with more and more breweries nowadays.

This is the scene that the fickle craft beer drinkers have created. It's a shame, in my opinion.

I can dig this... Great Lakes is a solid example... They once had a slim, but elite line up: Burning River pale ale, Edmund Fitzgerald porter, Commore Perry IPA, Dortmunder Gold, and Elliot Ness Amber lager... With their once prized Christmas ale.  These beers were killer. Then they lost focus on their bread and butter and ventured to different beers. These seasonals had their minute, but the staple beers' quality declined. I rarely drink a Great Lakes beer anymore unless it's my only craft choice. There is rumor that they aren't going to brew their Christmas ale this year because they got stuck with way too much left over for the last two seasons.

Now, I love their fall special, Nosferatu Imperial Red IPA... One of my favorite seasonal of any beer.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 12:34:39 am by fmader »
Frank

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2016, 06:20:47 am »

This is really what the craft beer scene has turned into - everyone's always looking for the next big thing. Once someone hits on it, then everyone and their brother rush out to put their own spin on it. Once upon a time, most craft breweries has 4-6 regular beers and had one or maybe two rotating seasonals. Now, even the lynchpin beers of most brands get changed every few years, and 2/3 of their line are one-offs or limited-release. Far fewer breweries are saying "this is what we are" and setting anchor (pun intended) with a clearly identifiable portfolio of steady beers.

For example, once upon a time Otter Creek was my favorite brewery. They had a solid lineup of beers, including a fantastic APA, and a killer Porter. Ever since Long Trail took them over, 2/3 of their beers are either one-offs or seasonals, and over half are IPA's. None of their regular lineup that I'd been drinking for 15+ years are around any more. It's like that with more and more breweries nowadays.

This is the scene that the fickle craft beer drinkers have created. It's a shame, in my opinion.

I can dig this... Great Lakes is a solid example... They once had a slim, but elite line up: Burning River pale ale, Edmund Fitzgerald porter, Commore Perry IPA, Dortmunder Gold, and Elliot Ness Amber lager... With their once prized Christmas ale.  These beers were killer. Then they lost focus on their bread and butter and ventured to different beers. These seasonals had their minute, but the staple beers' quality declined. I rarely drink a Great Lakes beer anymore unless it's my only craft choice. There is rumor that they aren't going to brew their Christmas ale this year because they got stuck with way too much left over for the last two seasons.

Now, I love their fall special, Nosferatu Imperial Red IPA... One of my favorite seasonal of any beer.

Nosferatu was delicious when I had it in October.

Offline case thrower

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2016, 07:21:06 am »


I can dig this... Great Lakes is a solid example... They once had a slim, but elite line up: Burning River pale ale, Edmund Fitzgerald porter, Commore Perry IPA, Dortmunder Gold, and Elliot Ness Amber lager... With their once prized Christmas ale.  These beers were killer. Then they lost focus on their bread and butter and ventured to different beers. These seasonals had their minute, but the staple beers' quality declined. I rarely drink a Great Lakes beer anymore unless it's my only craft choice. There is rumor that they aren't going to brew their Christmas ale this year because they got stuck with way too much left over for the last two seasons.

[/quote]

Great Lakes Brewing is a good example of what I was referring to about corporate layers.  I went into 2 stores on the 15th looking to get a 6 pack of their Conway's Irish Ale.  There weren't any.  I realized Great Lakes hadn't packaged enough 6 packs to last through St. Patrick's Day.  And if you're right about them being stuck with tot much Christmas Ale, it sounds like they need to look at who's in charge of production planning.
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Offline kmccaf

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2016, 07:44:02 am »


I can dig this... Great Lakes is a solid example... They once had a slim, but elite line up: Burning River pale ale, Edmund Fitzgerald porter, Commore Perry IPA, Dortmunder Gold, and Elliot Ness Amber lager... With their once prized Christmas ale.  These beers were killer. Then they lost focus on their bread and butter and ventured to different beers. These seasonals had their minute, but the staple beers' quality declined. I rarely drink a Great Lakes beer anymore unless it's my only craft choice. There is rumor that they aren't going to brew their Christmas ale this year because they got stuck with way too much left over for the last two seasons.

Now, I love their fall special, Nosferatu Imperial Red IPA... One of my favorite seasonal of any beer.

I was feeling burned out on all the new breweries and varieties, and decided to just stick with a few breweries I know I like. Great Lakes is one of them, and I regularly buy the sample pack, as I still love the original line up. I was just tired of buying pretty good beer, when I know that I will love Edmund Fitzgerald and Dortmonder Gold. That is a shame about the Xmas ale. I love that. Nosferatu is probably my favorite seasonal. Ages beautifully too. Just drank a 2013 version the other day.
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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2016, 08:41:27 am »
Some of the older breweries with a larger presence have stuck to their staples because they have a market and there's no reason for them to slap their loyal customers in the face by running away from those beers. If you have a good product and a market for it then you don't need to get into the running for fad beers or at least not give up your core market for it.

There was that stretch in the late aughts and early teens where there was a new fad that came and went each year. Here one year and dead the next (e.g. imperial everything, saison, saison again, Belgian yeast in everything). Now fads stretch longer and breweries can specialize in those spaces and build a longer term market in it (e.g. mixed fermentations, fruited saisons, murky IPAs, adjunct imperial stouts).

I'm not sure Alesmith completely fits into OP's list. Alesmith still puts out a few beers with solid trade value and many of the beers still trade fairly well in markets where they do not have a footprint. Alesmith is also growing and exporting to new markets so who knows how long that will last.
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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2016, 08:45:30 am »
Another brewery is making money hand-over-fist by doing only kettle-soured beers. People will go because it's a sour beer and that's the thing right now but if they'd just make the trip south to Jester King, they'd know that this new brewery is a bit of a joke in terms of quality. The market here still isn't close to saturated so I expect more mediocre breweries to continue to open but the ones that started 3-5 years ago are doing well (and will continue to do well) by sticking to a solid core of classic styles. Jester King is obviously in its own category.  ;D

That brewery's beers are terrible and terribly overpriced for the quality. I think they are doing so well in part because Jester King has created a demand for sour beer in the area that they cannot fulfill while this other brewery is pumping out so much beer that we're getting it fairly easily up here in DFW. FWIW, you can find roughly the same low quality kettle sours in all of the major craft beer markets around the country.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2016, 09:51:17 am »
This is really what the craft beer scene has turned into - everyone's always looking for the next big thing. Once someone hits on it, then everyone and their brother rush out to put their own spin on it. Once upon a time, most craft breweries has 4-6 regular beers and had one or maybe two rotating seasonals. Now, even the lynchpin beers of most brands get changed every few years, and 2/3 of their line are one-offs or limited-release. Far fewer breweries are saying "this is what we are" and setting anchor (pun intended) with a clearly identifiable portfolio of steady beers.

For example, once upon a time Otter Creek was my favorite brewery. They had a solid lineup of beers, including a fantastic APA, and a killer Porter. Ever since Long Trail took them over, 2/3 of their beers are either one-offs or seasonals, and over half are IPA's. None of their regular lineup that I'd been drinking for 15+ years are around any more. It's like that with more and more breweries nowadays.

This is the scene that the fickle craft beer drinkers have created. It's a shame, in my opinion.

I can dig this... Great Lakes is a solid example... They once had a slim, but elite line up: Burning River pale ale, Edmund Fitzgerald porter, Commore Perry IPA, Dortmunder Gold, and Elliot Ness Amber lager... With their once prized Christmas ale.  These beers were killer. Then they lost focus on their bread and butter and ventured to different beers. These seasonals had their minute, but the staple beers' quality declined. I rarely drink a Great Lakes beer anymore unless it's my only craft choice. There is rumor that they aren't going to brew their Christmas ale this year because they got stuck with way too much left over for the last two seasons.

Now, I love their fall special, Nosferatu Imperial Red IPA... One of my favorite seasonal of any beer.

Guess I have been out of the Cleveland market too long. As a restaurant manager, I vividly recall never getting as much Christmas Ale as I had ordered. It was always a beer to chase around the city. Getting 2 out of 5 kegs on a delivery and knowing I would be out before the weekend even started was always miserable. Guess those days are gone.
Frank L.
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In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)

Offline dilluh98

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2016, 10:08:48 am »
Another brewery is making money hand-over-fist by doing only kettle-soured beers. People will go because it's a sour beer and that's the thing right now but if they'd just make the trip south to Jester King, they'd know that this new brewery is a bit of a joke in terms of quality. The market here still isn't close to saturated so I expect more mediocre breweries to continue to open but the ones that started 3-5 years ago are doing well (and will continue to do well) by sticking to a solid core of classic styles. Jester King is obviously in its own category.  ;D

That brewery's beers are terrible and terribly overpriced for the quality. I think they are doing so well in part because Jester King has created a demand for sour beer in the area that they cannot fulfill while this other brewery is pumping out so much beer that we're getting it fairly easily up here in DFW. FWIW, you can find roughly the same low quality kettle sours in all of the major craft beer markets around the country.

It's unfortunate that drek is getting shipped north to you. I'm sure kettle sours can be done well, but I've yet to find one and this one definitely doesn't do it well. Heading to Jester King this weekend. Every time I go now I bring an extra $100 or so because I know I'll want to stock up on what's available. Damn they make fine beer. And yes, it seems the curse of good sours are that they do take time.

Offline fmader

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2016, 10:12:45 am »
This is really what the craft beer scene has turned into - everyone's always looking for the next big thing. Once someone hits on it, then everyone and their brother rush out to put their own spin on it. Once upon a time, most craft breweries has 4-6 regular beers and had one or maybe two rotating seasonals. Now, even the lynchpin beers of most brands get changed every few years, and 2/3 of their line are one-offs or limited-release. Far fewer breweries are saying "this is what we are" and setting anchor (pun intended) with a clearly identifiable portfolio of steady beers.

For example, once upon a time Otter Creek was my favorite brewery. They had a solid lineup of beers, including a fantastic APA, and a killer Porter. Ever since Long Trail took them over, 2/3 of their beers are either one-offs or seasonals, and over half are IPA's. None of their regular lineup that I'd been drinking for 15+ years are around any more. It's like that with more and more breweries nowadays.

This is the scene that the fickle craft beer drinkers have created. It's a shame, in my opinion.

I can dig this... Great Lakes is a solid example... They once had a slim, but elite line up: Burning River pale ale, Edmund Fitzgerald porter, Commore Perry IPA, Dortmunder Gold, and Elliot Ness Amber lager... With their once prized Christmas ale.  These beers were killer. Then they lost focus on their bread and butter and ventured to different beers. These seasonals had their minute, but the staple beers' quality declined. I rarely drink a Great Lakes beer anymore unless it's my only craft choice. There is rumor that they aren't going to brew their Christmas ale this year because they got stuck with way too much left over for the last two seasons.

Now, I love their fall special, Nosferatu Imperial Red IPA... One of my favorite seasonal of any beer.

Guess I have been out of the Cleveland market too long. As a restaurant manager, I vividly recall never getting as much Christmas Ale as I had ordered. It was always a beer to chase around the city. Getting 2 out of 5 kegs on a delivery and knowing I would be out before the weekend even started was always miserable. Guess those days are gone.

There's just so many Christmas options out there now. I think GL tries to flood the market, but in turn, take a hit. They brewed significantly less this year than last year because they over-produced by so much. My local bar, which is small, went through 22 kegs and are still offered more. I spoke with the manager at my local Giant Eagle (grocery store) last week and said his distributer is still offering cases up to him.

Funny thing is... A local beer store, Vintage Estates, offers 1000s of beers did a blind tasting of 13 Christmas beers. Great Lakes finished last lol.
Frank

Offline 69franx

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Re: When "hot" breweries get stale
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2016, 10:15:53 am »
I know from some contacts that their original recipe has changed drastically, and most of those changes since they lost their head brewer. I was always led to believe that he had gone to or started Thirsty Dog in Akron. I never fact checked that, but I did go to gradeschool with him, and 12 Dogs of Christmas is an excellent Holiday beer. Sorry to get so off track
Frank L.
Fermenting: Nothing (ugh!)
Conditioning: Nothing (UGH!)
In keg: Nothing (Double UGH!)
In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)