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Author Topic: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...  (Read 12851 times)

Offline denny

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2016, 02:20:34 pm »
Process replication is implicitly what recipes are all about!!

If you have the recipe for the original Schlitz beer then good on ya!  Brew it and send me a couple!

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Sure, but it's one thing to know what the process is, and it's entirely another to pull it off.  Many (most) homebrewers, my self included, struggle to repeatedly replicate their own recipes and processes, let alone someone else's.  I've been presented with many samples of my Rye IPA recipe, brewed by other people.  In spite of using my recipe and process, so far not one has tasted like mine.
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trentm

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2016, 02:37:21 pm »
Process replication is implicitly what recipes are all about!!

If you have the recipe for the original Schlitz beer then good on ya!  Brew it and send me a couple!

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Sure, but it's one thing to know what the process is, and it's entirely another to pull it off.  Many (most) homebrewers, my self included, struggle to repeatedly replicate their own recipes and processes, let alone someone else's.  I've been presented with many samples of my Rye IPA recipe, brewed by other people.  In spite of using my recipe and process, so far not one has tasted like mine.

Absolutely, I'm not disagreeing with you.  My chocolate cake isn't your chocolate cake but Betty Crocker's managed to make it pretty damn close.  I'm sure your Rye IPA batch #1 does not taste exactly like batch #2 which doesn't taste exactly like batch #3 etc...  and *you're* the brewer!  They may be close enough for government work but only the most well regulated/automated system and disciplined brewer can repeat at that level (BMC style I guess).

Excuse me while I brew a clone for the annual Schlitz beer brewing competition out of Mosquito Point, WI.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2016, 02:43:29 pm »
There is another approach to this problem. That is to wish for a really crappy palate.  Then you can't tell the difference between your beer and the commercial example you envy. Problem solved. And if its a bad enough palate, your beer will taste just like all commercial beers!

There's some sarcasm in that, in case you missed it. But some seriousness too. My pale ale, to me, is virtually identical side by side with bottled SNPA trucked to my area, except mine has more aroma. 1. Probably not identical to the fresh stuff, but maybe. 2. I have no doubt a better palate could tell them apart.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 02:47:40 pm by klickitat jim »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2016, 02:46:22 pm »
Two Rivers Beverage Co. Bobbie Ale.  Reasons I want that recipe:

1a) It was local, made a few blocks away from my house.
1b) They haven't brewed it since at least 1966.  Nostalgia.
2) It's not a pilsner -- it's a friggin English ale!
3) I have two full bottles of the stuff in my cellar that I'll never drink and probably wouldn't want to after 50+ years.

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Offline denny

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2016, 02:48:07 pm »
There is another approach to this problem. That is to wish for a really crappy palate.  Then you can't tell the difference between your beer and the commercial example you envy. Problem solved. And if its a bad enough palate, your beer will taste just like all commercial beers!

You've nailed it, buddy!  One reason that I seldom judge any more is becasue as I get older my sense of smell and taste gets more "diluted".
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2016, 04:09:04 pm »
Don't you think there's a difference between "have the recipe for" and "make a beer as good as"?  I think we'd both agree that recipe is a minor component.

Exactly. The recipe is important, but the subtleties all come from the process and the large scale equipment.  For example, thermal mass during whirlpool makes a difference that cannot be duplicated at homebrew scale.

Edit - trentm was that guy way before me.

OK, I will be "that guy" and say a recipe is the ingredients and procedures to process those ingredients. The process would include equipment.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 04:10:51 pm by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2016, 04:30:31 pm »
Don't you think there's a difference between "have the recipe for" and "make a beer as good as"?  I think we'd both agree that recipe is a minor component.

Exactly. The recipe is important, but the subtleties all come from the process and the large scale equipment.  For example, thermal mass during whirlpool makes a difference that cannot be duplicated at homebrew scale.

Edit - trentm was that guy way before me.

OK, I will be "that guy" and say a recipe is the ingredients and procedures to process those ingredients. The process would include equipment.
Yes, but at least on this and most forums, and in Zymurgy, and etc etc, usually "recipe" is grain bill, usually not maltster specific, mash temp, hops amounts and times, yeast strain, fermentation temp. Thats it.

Whirlpool means a hundred different things, fermenter could be anything from a Homer bucket to a corny to a conical... Usually its who knows what for water.

Tiny details can make as much difference as punctuation and spacing

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« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 04:37:34 pm by klickitat jim »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2016, 04:37:52 pm »
Yes, but at least on this and most forums, and in Zymurgy, and etc etc, usually "recipe" is grain bill, usually not maltster specific, mash temp, hops amounts and times, yeast strain, fermentation temp. Thats it.

Whirlpool means a hundred different things, fermenter could be anything from a Homer bucket to a corny to a conical... Usually its who knows what for water.

It is interesting how all that crap does matter...... and yet most of us really don't give a crap.  Oh well.  We still make beer, and it tastes good, and we drink it.  :)
Dave

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2016, 04:51:04 pm »
It is interesting how all that crap does matter...... and yet most of us really don't give a crap.  Oh well.  We still make beer, and it tastes good, and we drink it.  :)


Totally. Reminds me of the guy here a couple years ago who was determined to get every aspect of the SN Celebration Ale recipe. Quite a bit of that info is out there already. I told him he was lucky to have what's freely out there (as other breweries are often less open) and that was enough to get pretty close. He didn't like hearing that at all. Whatever.
Jon H.

trentm

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2016, 05:12:56 pm »
+1 homebrew is for fun and we can choose what to obsess over...

Since this turned into more of a "the meaning of the word recipe" thread... Recipe communication is key - perhaps by some standard.  A lot of information to include - water, ingredients, process and procedures, equipment, etc... Don't commercial breweries do the same when one brews the others beers?

How effectively was that Schlitz recipe communicated to you Denny? ;)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2016, 05:36:36 pm »
Don't you think there's a difference between "have the recipe for" and "make a beer as good as"?  I think we'd both agree that recipe is a minor component.

Exactly. The recipe is important, but the subtleties all come from the process and the large scale equipment.  For example, thermal mass during whirlpool makes a difference that cannot be duplicated at homebrew scale.

Edit - trentm was that guy way before me.

OK, I will be "that guy" and say a recipe is the ingredients and procedures to process those ingredients. The process would include equipment.
Yes, but at least on this and most forums, and in Zymurgy, and etc etc, usually "recipe" is grain bill, usually not maltster specific, mash temp, hops amounts and times, yeast strain, fermentation temp. Thats it.

Whirlpool means a hundred different things, fermenter could be anything from a Homer bucket to a corny to a conical... Usually its who knows what for water.

Tiny details can make as much difference as punctuation and spacing

I saw abundance on the table
I saw a bun dance on the table
You are stating the truth in a certain way there Jim.

Ask a commercial Brewer what they do when putting in a bigger brew house using the same water, malts, hops, yeast,and Brewers, making the beer the same. I know one that was dumping 200 bbl batches as they dialed it in. They still had the previous system on line to compare to. It ain't so easy.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2016, 05:49:50 pm »
Talk about an original thread derailed..... the question implies reproduction of your dream brew. Aside from all the minutia above I would love the recipe for and capability to reproduce the beer from Woinemer Hausbrauerie in Weinheim Germany. It was awesome and they served great food, too!

Offline santoch

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2016, 06:23:42 pm »
Ok, I'll bite.

Given the recipe and the ability to entirely duplicate the process and ingredients, my pick is Cantillon Gueze.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2016, 06:27:27 pm »
Many of the beers in around Bamberg.

On our last trip, we went to a few breweries, the equipment and process was not rocket science. Open fermenters and a big pitch of healthy yeast were my take always, along with making house beers over and over.
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Offline narcout

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Re: If you could have the recipe for one commercial beer...
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2016, 06:31:03 pm »
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