Author Topic: BeerSmith Noobie Question  (Read 1925 times)

Offline SPAMR

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BeerSmith Noobie Question
« on: March 22, 2016, 12:25:19 AM »
My name is Joe, and I am a noobie homebrewer. I have successfully made three batches using extract and am ready to make the switch to all-grain. That being said I have started using BeerSmith to aid the process.

I created a new recipe in BeerSmith but something seems off to me in regards to water volume, and the mash process. I recently purchased an SS Brewtech 10 gallon mash tun which I intend on using.

Can someone please take a look at what I have created and provide feedback?
Constructive criticism is welcome.  :o

Cheers

Offline SPAMR

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 12:28:26 AM »
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 2.30 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 2.08 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 4.75 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage


Equipment: SS Brewtech 10G
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0


9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.0 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2 4.4 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.4 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.2 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5 8.9 %
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 26.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 10.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 5.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 10 -
1.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.009 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.0 %
Bitterness: 45.9 IBUs
Est Color: 9.2 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body
Sparge Water: -0.95 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE


Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 4.0 oz
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Mash PH: 5.20


Mash In Add 12.81 qt of water at 164.7 F 152.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Error: Infusion temperature above boiling. Add more water! 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with -0.95 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).



Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle
Pressure/Weight: 3.73 oz
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage


Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Bottle with 3.73 oz Corn Sugar
Age for: 21.00 days
Storage Temperature: 65.0 F
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 12:31:06 AM by SPAMR »

Offline tommymorris

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 12:59:46 AM »
Seems like something is wrong with your equipment profile. Boil size should be bigger than your batch size.

What is your boil off rate set to? Should be 1-2 gallons. If you set this to low you just need to add more top up water after the boil. That's no big deal the first time. So set this to 1 if you don't know a number.

What is your lauter dead space? You can set that to 0 and top up your first brew.

What is your trub chiller loss? This can also be 0. If you whirl pool and leave some liquid and trub behind when transferring from kettle to fermenter then this number will be greater than 0. But again you can set to zero and just add top up water to the fermenter.

You may also have errors in your mash profile. I assume you are doing batch sparge. Set the water/grain ratio to 1.5-2. I like 2 personally. Set batch sparge to yes, drain tun before sparge to yes, and yes equal batches to yes.

Offline euge

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 01:13:11 AM »
Generally, it's considered better with all-grain to boil-down to concentrate to final volume than top-off and dilute.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Laws are spider-webs, which catch the little flies, but cannot hold the big ones. -Anacharsis

Offline tommymorris

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2016, 01:27:10 AM »

Generally, it's considered better with all-grain to boil-down to concentrate to final volume than top-off and dilute.
Right now the numbers from the OP are things like -0.95 sparge water. My recommendations were about brewing the first time with Beersmith when you don't know your parameters. A long the way that first few brews he can figure the correct numbers to nail his intended batch size after boil.

Offline euge

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2016, 01:49:10 AM »
I agree with you.

Looks (to me) like the OP is attempting a dilution approach to all-grain. Perhaps unknowingly. Which is possible. But, we'll set him straight to fiddle with the process.

Needs a second sparge or more in a single infusion.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Laws are spider-webs, which catch the little flies, but cannot hold the big ones. -Anacharsis

Offline SPAMR

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2016, 01:57:29 PM »
Seems like something is wrong with your equipment profile. Boil size should be bigger than your batch size.

Good catch - I will update this now.

What is your boil off rate set to? Should be 1-2 gallons. If you set this to low you just need to add more top up water after the boil. That's no big deal the first time. So set this to 1 if you don't know a number.

I will set this to 1 to start. I am expecting it to realistically be 1.5 but like you said I can always top up water after the boil.

What is your lauter dead space? You can set that to 0 and top up your first brew.

What is your trub chiller loss? This can also be 0. If you whirl pool and leave some liquid and trub behind when transferring from kettle to fermenter then this number will be greater than 0. But again you can set to zero and just add top up water to the fermenter.

I've never used this mash tun before so I will set this to 0 and top up.

You may also have errors in your mash profile. I assume you are doing batch sparge. Set the water/grain ratio to 1.5-2. I like 2 personally. Set batch sparge to yes, drain tun before sparge to yes, and yes equal batches to yes.

I was thinking of batch sparging for my first attempt at all-grain but I do have the fly sparge attachment for my mash tun. What do you suggest?

I appreciate all of the help!

Offline tommymorris

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BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2016, 02:01:43 PM »
Seems like something is wrong with your equipment profile. Boil size should be bigger than your batch size.

Good catch - I will update this now.

What is your boil off rate set to? Should be 1-2 gallons. If you set this to low you just need to add more top up water after the boil. That's no big deal the first time. So set this to 1 if you don't know a number.

I will set this to 1 to start. I am expecting it to realistically be 1.5 but like you said I can always top up water after the boil.

What is your lauter dead space? You can set that to 0 and top up your first brew.

What is your trub chiller loss? This can also be 0. If you whirl pool and leave some liquid and trub behind when transferring from kettle to fermenter then this number will be greater than 0. But again you can set to zero and just add top up water to the fermenter.

I've never used this mash tun before so I will set this to 0 and top up.

You may also have errors in your mash profile. I assume you are doing batch sparge. Set the water/grain ratio to 1.5-2. I like 2 personally. Set batch sparge to yes, drain tun before sparge to yes, and yes equal batches to yes.

I was thinking of batch sparging for my first attempt at all-grain but I do have the fly sparge attachment for my mash tun. What do you suggest?

I appreciate all of the help!
Batch sparge seems much easier to me. Neither will go perfectly the first time. I say just go for it.

There are instructions here:
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

And there are videos. Including one by Denny.

Edit: here is Denny's video.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=26219
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 02:04:30 PM by alestateyall »

Offline tommymorris

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BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 02:10:36 PM »
One tip. Make a dip stick. This will allow you to measure volumes. You can measure your pre and post boil volume to get boil off rate for future brews. You can also calculate how much volume you get from mash and calculate the dead space in your mash tun (mine is set to zero).  I tip my tun and get most of the liquid out.

Offline SPAMR

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 04:17:12 PM »
I think I was able to make the adjustments. Can you please take a look at the updated brew process below?  ;D

TYPE: All Grain
Style: American IPA
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 9.2 SRM      SRM RANGE: 6.0-15.0 SRM
IBU: 98.7 IBUs Tinseth   IBU RANGE: 40.0-70.0 IBUs
OG: 1.062 SG      OG RANGE: 1.056-1.075 SG
FG: 1.012 SG      FG RANGE: 1.010-1.018 SG
BU:GU: 1.582      Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz   Est ABV: 6.6 %      
EE%: 72.00 %   Batch: 5.00 gal      Boil: 6.20 gal   BT: 60 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------


Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 4.0 oz   Total Hops: 5.50 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        80.0 %       
8.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain         2        4.4 %         
8.0 oz                Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                  Grain         3        4.4 %         
4.0 oz                Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)             Grain         4        2.2 %         


Name              Description                             Step Temperature  Step Time     
Mash In           Add 12.81 qt of water at 174.8 F        156.0 F           60 min       
Mash Out          Add 5.13 qt of water at 205.5 F         168.0 F           10 min       

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 72.0 F/72.0 F
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 2.95 gal water at 168.0 F

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.050 SG   Est OG: 1.062 SG
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
1 lbs                 Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM)          Sugar         5        8.9 %         
1.00 oz               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.00 %] - Boil 60. Hop           6        56.7 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min          Hop           7        22.5 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min        Hop           8        12.6 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min         Hop           9        6.9 IBUs     


---FERM PROCESS-----------------------------
Primary Start: 21 Mar 2016 - 5.00 Days at 67.0 F
Secondary Start: 26 Mar 2016 - 7.00 Days at 67.0 F
Style Carb Range: 2.20-2.70 Vols
Bottling Date: 02 Apr 2016 with 2.3 Volumes CO2:
---NOTES------------------------------------

« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 05:19:57 PM by SPAMR »

Offline SPAMR

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 04:17:36 PM »
One tip. Make a dip stick. This will allow you to measure volumes. You can measure your pre and post boil volume to get boil off rate for future brews. You can also calculate how much volume you get from mash and calculate the dead space in your mash tun (mine is set to zero).  I tip my tun and get most of the liquid out.

Great idea. Thank you again!

RPIScotty

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 11:38:09 PM »
One tip. Make a dip stick. This will allow you to measure volumes. You can measure your pre and post boil volume to get boil off rate for future brews. You can also calculate how much volume you get from mash and calculate the dead space in your mash tun (mine is set to zero).  I tip my tun and get most of the liquid out.

Great idea. Thank you again!

You could use a stainless steel ruler as well (thanks to pricelessbrewing for pointing this out to me). Simply measure you kettle interior diameter and use the following equation:

Volume = (Π * r² * H) * 0.004329

Where Π = 3.14, r = kettle radius, H = measured height of wort in kettle in inches and 0.004329  is the conversion factor for in³ to gallons.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 01:06:04 AM »

I think I was able to make the adjustments. Can you please take a look at the updated brew process below?  ;D

TYPE: All Grain
Style: American IPA
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 9.2 SRM      SRM RANGE: 6.0-15.0 SRM
IBU: 98.7 IBUs Tinseth   IBU RANGE: 40.0-70.0 IBUs
OG: 1.062 SG      OG RANGE: 1.056-1.075 SG
FG: 1.012 SG      FG RANGE: 1.010-1.018 SG
BU:GU: 1.582      Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz   Est ABV: 6.6 %      
EE%: 72.00 %   Batch: 5.00 gal      Boil: 6.20 gal   BT: 60 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------


Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 4.0 oz   Total Hops: 5.50 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        80.0 %       
8.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain         2        4.4 %         
8.0 oz                Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                  Grain         3        4.4 %         
4.0 oz                Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)             Grain         4        2.2 %         


Name              Description                             Step Temperature  Step Time     
Mash In           Add 12.81 qt of water at 174.8 F        156.0 F           60 min       
Mash Out          Add 5.13 qt of water at 205.5 F         168.0 F           10 min       

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 72.0 F/72.0 F
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 2.95 gal water at 168.0 F

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.050 SG   Est OG: 1.062 SG
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
1 lbs                 Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM)          Sugar         5        8.9 %         
1.00 oz               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.00 %] - Boil 60. Hop           6        56.7 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min          Hop           7        22.5 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min        Hop           8        12.6 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min         Hop           9        6.9 IBUs     


---FERM PROCESS-----------------------------
Primary Start: 21 Mar 2016 - 5.00 Days at 67.0 F
Secondary Start: 26 Mar 2016 - 7.00 Days at 67.0 F
Style Carb Range: 2.20-2.70 Vols
Bottling Date: 02 Apr 2016 with 2.3 Volumes CO2:
---NOTES------------------------------------

I think your numbers look fine. I compared them to this calculator (I chose it at random from google): http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

My only suggestion is mashing thinner. Your quarts mash water to pounds grain ratio is about 1.14 now. I would going up to 1.75. Thinner mash is easier to avoid dough balls and I think you will get better efficiency. You can increase that ratio in the mash profile of your recipe (if you want).

Offline tommymorris

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 01:16:09 AM »

One tip. Make a dip stick. This will allow you to measure volumes. You can measure your pre and post boil volume to get boil off rate for future brews. You can also calculate how much volume you get from mash and calculate the dead space in your mash tun (mine is set to zero).  I tip my tun and get most of the liquid out.

Great idea. Thank you again!

You could use a stainless steel ruler as well (thanks to pricelessbrewing for pointing this out to me). Simply measure you kettle interior diameter and use the following equation:

Volume = (Π * r² * H) * 0.004329

Where Π = 3.14, r = kettle radius, H = measured height of wort in kettle in inches and 0.004329  is the conversion factor for in³ to gallons.
Derek's equation is for a perfect cylinder. The bottom of my kettle is not welded on. There is a curve between the bottom and sides. After this curve, I have straight sides (perpendicular to the bottom).

I made my dip stick by pouring gallons into the pot and marking those gallon increments. My kettle has straight sides so I then measured the distance between gallon 1 and 2. The rest of the gallon marks can be marked without pouring water. I then divided the distance between 1 and 2 gallons to get the 1/10th gallon increment value and marked this off on my dip stick between all the gallon graduations. I didn't mark 1/10th gallon graduations below 1 gallon due to the curve at the bottom of the kettle.

RPIScotty

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Re: BeerSmith Noobie Question
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 01:31:49 AM »

One tip. Make a dip stick. This will allow you to measure volumes. You can measure your pre and post boil volume to get boil off rate for future brews. You can also calculate how much volume you get from mash and calculate the dead space in your mash tun (mine is set to zero).  I tip my tun and get most of the liquid out.

Great idea. Thank you again!

You could use a stainless steel ruler as well (thanks to pricelessbrewing for pointing this out to me). Simply measure you kettle interior diameter and use the following equation:

Volume = (Π * r² * H) * 0.004329

Where Π = 3.14, r = kettle radius, H = measured height of wort in kettle in inches and 0.004329  is the conversion factor for in³ to gallons.
Derek's equation is for a perfect cylinder. The bottom of my kettle is not welded on. There is a curve between the bottom and sides. After this curve, I have straight sides (perpendicular to the bottom).

I made my dip stick by pouring gallons into the pot and marking those gallon increments. My kettle has straight sides so I then measured the distance between gallon 1 and 2. The rest of the gallon marks can be marked without pouring water. I then divided the distance between 1 and 2 gallons to get the 1/10th gallon increment value and marked this off on my dip stick between all the gallon graduations. I didn't mark 1/10th gallon graduations below 1 gallon due to the curve at the bottom of the kettle.

Good point. The slight curve in my 12 quart pot is so slight as to make a negligible difference in volume. I'm not really trying to be exact. If I'm pretty dang close I'll take it.

Thanks for pointing this out though. It's definitely worth making the distinction.