Author Topic: "Extracty" all grain flavor  (Read 1430 times)

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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"Extracty" all grain flavor
« on: March 23, 2016, 12:38:45 PM »
I have done 5 all grain batches and love it.  I recently entered a local homebrew competition just to see how I would score.  In the grand scheme of things I was happy with how I did.  I just got the results back and several judges commented that my beer was “extracty”.  Some used the words “syrupy”. 

I can’t say that I disagree, but what does this mean to my 100% all grain batches?  Where could this flavor be coming from? 

RPIScotty

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 12:46:41 PM »
I have done 5 all grain batches and love it.  I recently entered a local homebrew competition just to see how I would score.  In the grand scheme of things I was happy with how I did.  I just got the results back and several judges commented that my beer was “extracty”.  Some used the words “syrupy”. 

I can’t say that I disagree, but what does this mean to my 100% all grain batches?  Where could this flavor be coming from?

Too sweet? Low attenuation?

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 12:47:28 PM »
Possibly too much crystal malt.  Also could be from melanoidin malt or aromatic malt.  I had this happen on my most recent ESB, and I'm sure it's a combination of both.  I used almost 20% crystal malt (too much) plus melanoidin on top of it.  Yeah, I overdid it.  I still like the beer, but it's a bit cloying, and could be perceived by less experienced folks as tasting "extracty" and actually does taste rather "syrupy".

Could also be from too much oxygen in how you handle the fermenting beer.  Do you rack to secondary after the first few days in primary?  If so, don't next time, and then see if the problem goes away in those subsequent batches.  Also you could try purging your racking vessels and kegs (if you keg) with CO2 gas prior to racking to push all the oxygen out before ever racking the beer.  Possibly could also be a leak in your hoses allowing oxygen in.  And along with that...

Could possibly also be a contamination thing.  Are you using old plastic fermenters and hoses?  It's a good practice to replace all that soft stuff at least every ~18 months, because once it gets any small amount of contamination at all, it will never die, no matter how much sanitizer you throw at it.  It builds some kind of immunity to it, and thus just needs to be replaced.  This being said..... this probably is NOT your issue.  It's either oxygen, or recipe formulation, or both, I would have to guess.  I just say it because it's general good practice, and plus, people might sometimes associate "extract" beer flavor with what are actually contamination problems based on beginning brewers using a lot of extract and not quite having the sanitation thing down pat yet.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 01:24:32 PM by dmtaylor »
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Offline majorvices

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 01:12:07 PM »
To me "extracty" and "syrupy" sounds like you aren't taking well enough care of your fermentation. If the fermentation is not strong sue to not enough yeast or improper aeration these can lead to underattenuated beers with more yeasty off flavors. "Extracty" also could mean that they are picking up fermentation off flavors from not fermenting cool enough. What is the temp of your fermentation, generally?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 01:47:20 PM »
To me "extracty" and "syrupy" sounds like you aren't taking well enough care of your fermentation. If the fermentation is not strong sue to not enough yeast or improper aeration these can lead to underattenuated beers with more yeasty off flavors. "Extracty" also could mean that they are picking up fermentation off flavors from not fermenting cool enough. What is the temp of your fermentation, generally?



+1.  Beat me to it. Under aerated wort and/or underpitched wort could end up syrupy definitely. What was your grist and fermentation temp/schedule ?
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Offline Stevie

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 01:50:44 PM »
What a crappy descriptor. We're these ranked judges?

trentm

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 01:58:57 PM »
Agreed that is a poor description.

Could you post your recipe?  Perhaps that may give us a hint.

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 05:29:47 PM »
Agreed that is a poor description.

Could you post your recipe?  Perhaps that may give us a hint.

These judges were not ranked.  They were mostly locals that had one BJCP judge assigned to each group.

 
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 81.8 %

12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.8 %

8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.5 %

8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.5 %

4.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.3 %

1.00 oz Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 27.5 IBUs

0.50 oz Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 7.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml]


Fermented roughly one month at appx 66 degrees. 

RPIScotty

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 05:39:44 PM »
Agreed that is a poor description.

Could you post your recipe?  Perhaps that may give us a hint.

These judges were not ranked.  They were mostly locals that had one BJCP judge assigned to each group.

 
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 81.8 %

12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.8 %

8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.5 %

8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.5 %

4.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.3 %

1.00 oz Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 27.5 IBUs

0.50 oz Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 7.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml]


Fermented roughly one month at appx 66 degrees.

Could have been all the crystal malt

Offline brewinhard

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 05:44:53 PM »
Could be a bit heavy handed on the crystal malts. Especially the 120L. And with the use of your crystal malt you probably didn't need any carapils either. What was your final gravity?

Offline denny

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 05:57:47 PM »
Could be a bit heavy handed on the crystal malts. Especially the 120L. And with the use of your crystal malt you probably didn't need any carapils either. What was your final gravity?

I'd say the issue might be too little hops rather than too much crystal.  Or a combo.
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Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2016, 06:10:45 PM »
Could be a bit heavy handed on the crystal malts. Especially the 120L. And with the use of your crystal malt you probably didn't need any carapils either. What was your final gravity?

OG: 1.57
FG:  1.011

Offline denny

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 06:14:16 PM »
Could be a bit heavy handed on the crystal malts. Especially the 120L. And with the use of your crystal malt you probably didn't need any carapils either. What was your final gravity?

OG: 1.57
FG:  1.011

Yep, that's fine.  To me it seems to be a heavy crystal malt flavor, coupled with not enough hops to balance the crystal.  And maybe some questionable judging.
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Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 06:19:04 PM »
Could be a bit heavy handed on the crystal malts. Especially the 120L. And with the use of your crystal malt you probably didn't need any carapils either. What was your final gravity?

OG: 1.57
FG:  1.011

Well I submitted an entry to the AHA competition as well.  I would think that's a better pool of judges.

Yep, that's fine.  To me it seems to be a heavy crystal malt flavor, coupled with not enough hops to balance the crystal.  And maybe some questionable judging.

Offline santoch

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Re: "Extracty" all grain flavor
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 06:19:23 PM »
"Extracty" is not a good descriptor but "syrupy" is a bit more instructive.  It sounds like its coming across as thick and sweet to me.

I think its a combo.  The carapils seems unnecessary, and the 120 is pretty heavy in its own right.  Half a lb of C60 is plenty.  If you want more head, add a bit of wheat malt or torrified/flaked wheat to the grain bill instead of carapils.  You get more protein without the sweetness.

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