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Author Topic: Matching IBUs with different AA hops  (Read 2828 times)

Offline yso191

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2016, 10:42:26 am »
I'm definitely on board with Denny and Dave here. Try bittering a given beer to about 40-45 IBUs with any noble hop, then try, say, chinook to the same 40-45 IBUs. I absolutely guarantee the difference will be very noticeable.

But is the difference in bitterness or in what is typically described as flavor?  For example if I bitter with Amarillo with no late additions or dry hopping, will I get citrus/tangerine in the final product?  I doubt it. 

My guess is that the different bittering hops just present different bittering flavors - different alpha acid makeup - but I seriously doubt any noticeable oils remain after a 60 minute boil.  For me to be convinced it would take a lab evaluation.
Steve
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Offline denny

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2016, 10:45:21 am »
I'm definitely on board with Denny and Dave here. Try bittering a given beer to about 40-45 IBUs with any noble hop, then try, say, chinook to the same 40-45 IBUs. I absolutely guarantee the difference will be very noticeable.

But is the difference in bitterness or in what is typically described as flavor?  For example if I bitter with Amarillo with no late additions or dry hopping, will I get citrus/tangerine in the final product?  I doubt it. 

My guess is that the different bittering hops just present different bittering flavors - different alpha acid makeup - but I seriously doubt any noticeable oils remain after a 60 minute boil.  For me to be convinced it would take a lab evaluation.

For me to be convinced, it takes tasting...I don't really care about measurements when I'm enjoying a beer!  I understand what you're saying.  I definitely get a difference in the quality of bitterness.  I _think_ I get a difference in flavor, but I won't say for sure until I test it more.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2016, 10:49:14 am »
I'm definitely on board with Denny and Dave here. Try bittering a given beer to about 40-45 IBUs with any noble hop, then try, say, chinook to the same 40-45 IBUs. I absolutely guarantee the difference will be very noticeable.

But is the difference in bitterness or in what is typically described as flavor?  For example if I bitter with Amarillo with no late additions or dry hopping, will I get citrus/tangerine in the final product?  I doubt it. 

My guess is that the different bittering hops just present different bittering flavors - different alpha acid makeup - but I seriously doubt any noticeable oils remain after a 60 minute boil.  For me to be convinced it would take a lab evaluation.

For me to be convinced, it takes tasting...I don't really care about measurements when I'm enjoying a beer!  I understand what you're saying.  I definitely get a difference in the quality of bitterness.  I _think_ I get a difference in flavor, but I won't say for sure until I test it more.

Ha ha!  As I was writing that I had the thought that you'd respond with a preference for taste-testing.  Ultimately that is what matters to us, but the lab would shut and lock the door on the issue.
Steve
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2016, 11:04:54 am »
For me to be convinced, it takes tasting...I don't really care about measurements when I'm enjoying a beer!  I understand what you're saying.  I definitely get a difference in the quality of bitterness.  I _think_ I get a difference in flavor, but I won't say for sure until I test it more.

This is well said.  I, too, think I'm able to discern an actual flavor difference, not just bitterness, but I'll admit I have never done side-by-side Brulosophy style experimentation to know for sure.  And since I'm so dang lazy and trusting in my intuition, I probably never will either.  But if anyone else wants to run the experiment, I'd pay close attention to the results, and would be willing to bet $50 on there being a difference.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2016, 04:41:51 pm »
I'm definitely on board with Denny and Dave here. Try bittering a given beer to about 40-45 IBUs with any noble hop, then try, say, chinook to the same 40-45 IBUs. I absolutely guarantee the difference will be very noticeable.

But is the difference in bitterness or in what is typically described as flavor?  For example if I bitter with Amarillo with no late additions or dry hopping, will I get citrus/tangerine in the final product?  I doubt it. 

My guess is that the different bittering hops just present different bittering flavors - different alpha acid makeup - but I seriously doubt any noticeable oils remain after a 60 minute boil.  For me to be convinced it would take a lab evaluation.
I would be willing to wager that some hop oils will remain. Which ones and how much are the question. There would have to be enough to remain over the taste threshold, and that is the real question.

I think the biggest difference is likely differing amounts of the various iso-AA's, but I'd be willing to put a friendly wager that some beta acids, hop oils, or some derivative thereof, may also make a contribution.
Eric B.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2016, 06:45:04 pm »
I know that in a low IBU low hop flavor beer that a few more or less grams at 60 min can and does effect final flavor. So it stands to reason that in a more bitter style a different bittering hop will make a noticeable difference even though the calculated IBUs are the same. Plus, I took dennys advice and tried Chinook in place of Magnum at same calculated IBUs and for me it's entirely different

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2016, 08:05:08 pm »
Plus, I took dennys advice and tried Chinook in place of Magnum at same calculated IBUs and for me it's entirely different


Yeah, Magnum (or Warrior) vs Chinook (or Columbus) for 60 mins can have exactly equal IBUs but the quality of the bitterness is light years apart.
Jon H.

Offline martinj

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2016, 10:23:52 pm »
I'm definitely on board with Denny and Dave here. Try bittering a given beer to about 40-45 IBUs with any noble hop, then try, say, chinook to the same 40-45 IBUs. I absolutely guarantee the difference will be very noticeable.

But is the difference in bitterness or in what is typically described as flavor?  For example if I bitter with Amarillo with no late additions or dry hopping, will I get citrus/tangerine in the final product?  I doubt it. 

My guess is that the different bittering hops just present different bittering flavors - different alpha acid makeup - but I seriously doubt any noticeable oils remain after a 60 minute boil.  For me to be convinced it would take a lab evaluation.

I'm talking about bitterness.  I get that the flavor is going to be different as well, and I also get that it's difficult to draw a distinction at times. But I'm talking about the fact that the perception of the bitterness itself is different.
Marty

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2016, 06:32:02 am »
Plus, I took dennys advice and tried Chinook in place of Magnum at same calculated IBUs and for me it's entirely different


Yeah, Magnum (or Warrior) vs Chinook (or Columbus) for 60 mins can have exactly equal IBUs but the quality of the bitterness is light years apart.
Calculated or measured?

There has been some more recent research that says cohomulone is more water soluble, and more isomorizes, so you get a higher actual bitterness.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Matching IBUs with different AA hops
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2016, 07:23:14 am »
Plus, I took dennys advice and tried Chinook in place of Magnum at same calculated IBUs and for me it's entirely different


Yeah, Magnum (or Warrior) vs Chinook (or Columbus) for 60 mins can have exactly equal IBUs but the quality of the bitterness is light years apart.
Calculated or measured?

There has been some more recent research that says cohomulone is more water soluble, and more isomorizes, so you get a higher actual bitterness.


I meant calculated in software, not measured. I hadn't heard that about cohumulone. Pretty interesting.
Jon H.