Author Topic: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy  (Read 3450 times)

Offline PrettyBeard

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 07:05:08 PM »
Meh.  I've always like weissbiers so it's never really seemed all that controversial to me.  Haven't found one to try yet though, and I don't like IPAs enough to try and brew one yet.  I suppose when the hops come in this fall I might give it a try.

Offline denny

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2016, 07:54:35 PM »
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.
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Offline PrettyBeard

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 08:16:33 PM »
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?

Offline denny

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 08:17:24 PM »
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?

I fail to see the connection.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 08:30:09 PM »
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?
The British ones were said to be very dry and of brilliant clarity after 6 months to a year in the brewery yard and 6 months at sea. But we all know we shouldn't age IPAs. What were they thinking?

Those were also said to be around 60-70 IBUs, and would have had a dry bitter finish from the sulfate levels and high attenuation. I have brewed some form Ron Pattinson's blog, they are really good beers. Those are probably more bitter than the NE IPAs.
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Offline braufessor

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2016, 01:23:44 AM »
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?

I fail to see the connection.

I suppose the connection would be that if it is ok for "west coast" IPA's and APA's to be out of style on IBU's, it is ok for "east coast" IPA's and APA's to be out of style on clarity.

That said - MURKY beers are not good in my experience.  I have had LOTS of really good "hazy" IPA's.  I have had very few "murky" IPA's that I would call good.  I am not a fan or advocate of the "yeast milkshake."

Personally, the thing I tend to like about the "NE IPA" is the emphasis on less bitterness and more flameout/dry hop.  Chloride over sulfate.  Personally, I like the smoother hop flavor as opposed to the piney bitterness and assertive bite of many IPA's.

One thing I do absolutely agree on as a downfall of the "hazy" beers..... I think it does hurt the shelf life and the flavor can be less stable.  But, I have had some unbelievable beers of this style fresh, or at the source.  Hopefully with NHC out east, maybe some west coasters will get a chance to sample some of the beers fresher and in better condition than they might have been able to in the past.  There really are some good beers being made in this "style."

In the end, there are a lot of great beers out there. Pliny is great.  Firestone Walker beers, Ballast Point, Two Hearted, Bear Republic..... etc..... along with Lawsons, Alchemist, Hill Farmstead, Bissel Brothers, Other Half, Tree House....etc.  I have had both spectacular and terrible clear beers.  Spectacular and terrible "hazy" beers. 

I am always open to trying anything.  Whether or not I buy a second I leave to my experience with the first.

Offline Biran

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 01:27:02 AM »
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.

Offline jeffy

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 01:30:21 AM »
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.
If it looks like the tap sucked up the grunge at the bottom of the keg I am sending it back.
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Offline Biran

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2016, 03:28:30 AM »
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste
bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.
If it looks like the tap sucked up the grunge at the bottom of the keg I am sending it back.

I don't understand the pushback I'm getting from my comment.  I once had a pint from a popular and successful brewery in San Diego that looked like sludge. I took a sip and sent it back.  The bartender didn't charge me for it.  If it had tasted fine I would not have said a word about it.  My point is that if the flavor and aroma is good, I don't mind what the beer looks like.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 03:46:13 AM »
Just my personal view regarding commercial or homebrewed APA/IPA/IIPA... it should be clear. If its "hazy from dry hopping" then I ought to be smelling hops. So if you are claiming the haze comes from the hops, then show me the hops! If your IPA is hazy and has no hop aroma, there's a problem.

If you/they/we are creating a new style, I have no problem whatsoever with that. If the new style is called NEIPA cool. If that style is moderately hazy to opaque cloudy, thats fine too. But why? Is it mit heffe? Is it wheat? Is it so incredibly hopped that its milky? Any of these are fine, but it needs to be self evident. If its yeast, it should be tastey yeast. If its wheat, are we tasting wheat? If its hops, are we having our hair blown back by hop aroma?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 03:47:55 AM by klickitat jim »

Online narvin

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 04:11:38 AM »
There's hazy and then there's yeasty.  The latter is just not something that I think goes all that well with an IPA.  The first issue is stability... when the yeast drops out, you lose the flavor. 

Even the "cloudy" beers of Belgium are centrifuged and reyeasted with just enough to encourage refermentation in the bottle. I guess if you're making IPAs, and ones that are so popular that they fly off the shelf, you don't have to worry about stability.  But when the fad shifts again (and it will faster than ever in this day and age), it's no longer going to be a very practical style.

But at least it's not nasty like black ipa ;-)
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Offline denny

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 03:28:59 PM »
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.

I don't mind hazy.  Muddy is a different matter.
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Offline Hand of Dom

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 04:27:58 PM »
I used to expect commercial beers to be clear, but as my favourite beer is the pretty cloudy Rochefort 8, I'm not that bothered these days.
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Offline denny

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2016, 04:41:18 PM »
I used to expect commercial beers to be clear, but as my favourite beer is the pretty cloudy Rochefort 8, I'm not that bothered these days.

Rochefort 8 is cloudy?  And again, I don't have a lot of problems with cloudy.  It's sludgy that I object to.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2016, 04:45:18 PM »
I don't see it as cloudy at all. If you pour in all the yeast sediment in the bottom it might be - I decant that stuff. Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.
Jon H.