[klickitat jim]

When 5-22 SRM is OK, I'll bet you could also get by with 23 or 24

[klickitat jim]

When 5-22 SRM is OK, I'll bet you could also get by with 23 or 24

[homoeccentricus]

FWIW, Dupont has been brewing a brown saison for 30 years.

http://www.brasserie-dupont.com/dupont/Default.aspx?Page=moinettebrune

I don't have much to add other than that. My first attempt at saison last year ended up infected, and my second attempt missed the mark I was aiming for. Should be a great beer though, but is still fermenting.

Attempt #3 will be a 100% pils malt stab at a Dupont clone. I want to play with the process more than the recipe for now.

I wouldn't call the Moinette a Saison, but rather a dubbel or Belgian strong ale. Dupont makes other beers as well: wit, pils, stout, etc.

[zwiller]

3726 is my absolute favorite. Great ester profile and attenuation across a wide range of temperatures. It will be available in the summer.

+1000;  Someone on the ole greenboard recommended that one to me and I owe him a huge thanks. 

[reverseapachemaster]

I've got some Cascade hops in there to add some citrus note.  Do you think that would compete with or complement the yeast notes?

I think cascade works exceedingly well in a saison, especially when mixed with European hops. Cascade by itself is too reminiscent of an APA or AIPA but blended with any type of European hops makes for a great saison. I like Cascade with any of the styrian varieties.

[denny]

Yeah, you're right about Drew's dark saison.  He knows a lot more about them than I do, so it may actually be to style.  Not that he'd care!

The current style guidelines say 5-22 SRM for a saison.

The Wyeast style guide has candi sugar as a possible ingredient.  Is that different from candi syrup?

Yes.  Candi sugar basically has no flavor.

[narvin]

As a baseline, I'd suggest no crystal malt or sugar.  Don't replace them with anything... Just lower the OG.  1.055 is not too low to go.

[Philbrew]

As a baseline, I'd suggest no crystal malt or sugar.  Don't replace them with anything... Just lower the OG.  1.055 is not too low to go.

Yes, the caramel/crystal is out and probably the D-45 as well.  I want something to add a little orange color.  I have a 1/2 lb. of melanoiden (23L) on hand.

[Philbrew]

I've got some Cascade hops in there to add some citrus note.  Do you think that would compete with or complement the yeast notes?

I think cascade works exceedingly well in a saison, especially when mixed with European hops. Cascade by itself is too reminiscent of an APA or AIPA but blended with any type of European hops makes for a great saison. I like Cascade with any of the styrian varieties.

I've got 1/2 oz. of Cascade and a 1/2 oz. of Hallertau at 15 min. and 1 oz. of Hallertau whirlpool.
Your thoughts?  OK combination?  More of this, less of that???  I've also got some Sterling in the freezer.

[charles1968]

Yes, the caramel/crystal is out and probably the D-45 as well.  I want something to add a little orange color.  I have a 1/2 lb. of melanoiden (23L) on hand.

I wouldn't use melanoidin malt for colour - it's got an overpowering malt flavour that might be out of place in a saison. You should get an orange colour just from the high-ish gravity. Dropping wheat from the grain bill (if it's in the revipe) will make it a touch more coloured.

[majorvices]

I've got opinions...

Belle Saison makes crummy saison.

Totally disagree.  It's the same dang thing as 3711 anyway.

I'm with you, love the belle saison strain. Can't understand why people have problems with it unless they ferment too hot. That said I probably like the 3711 better.

[MDixon]

If you want an orange color, just add a half ounce of chocolate.

IMO melanoidin malt has no place in a saison. I tend to like some sugar to dry out the beer and I use table sugar.

[HoosierBrew]

A grist of Pils, Vienna, and a little wheat malt is my favorite for saison. It's gold, not orange, but is pretty tasty. +1 to no melanoidan, crystal, or sugar.

[reverseapachemaster]

I've got some Cascade hops in there to add some citrus note.  Do you think that would compete with or complement the yeast notes?

I think cascade works exceedingly well in a saison, especially when mixed with European hops. Cascade by itself is too reminiscent of an APA or AIPA but blended with any type of European hops makes for a great saison. I like Cascade with any of the styrian varieties.

I've got 1/2 oz. of Cascade and a 1/2 oz. of Hallertau at 15 min. and 1 oz. of Hallertau whirlpool.
Your thoughts?  OK combination?  More of this, less of that???  I've also got some Sterling in the freezer.

I think that blend is fine. If you want a little more American or noble character you could adjust the mix one way or the other. Cascade is usually more prominent ounce for ounce than noble hops so a 25/75% blend favoring Hallertau probably gives you a good balance between the two.

[Philbrew]

I've got some Cascade hops in there to add some citrus note.  Do you think that would compete with or complement the yeast notes?

I think cascade works exceedingly well in a saison, especially when mixed with European hops. Cascade by itself is too reminiscent of an APA or AIPA but blended with any type of European hops makes for a great saison. I like Cascade with any of the styrian varieties.

I've got 1/2 oz. of Cascade and a 1/2 oz. of Hallertau at 15 min. and 1 oz. of Hallertau whirlpool.
Your thoughts?  OK combination?  More of this, less of that???  I've also got some Sterling in the freezer.

I think that blend is fine. If you want a little more American or noble character you could adjust the mix one way or the other. Cascade is usually more prominent ounce for ounce than noble hops so a 25/75% blend favoring Hallertau probably gives you a good balance between the two.

OK, thanks for the input.  I think I'll go with that or maybe add a little Cascade the the whirlpool.