Author Topic: Always start low and go high?  (Read 1473 times)

trentm

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Always start low and go high?
« on: March 31, 2016, 07:34:25 PM »
Always start at the low end of the recommended yeast temperature range (possibly even lower).  When primary fermentation subsides, slowly ramp to the desired temperature.

Are there any exceptions (or yeasts that are an exception) to this rule?

Offline denny

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 07:53:42 PM »
Not that I've found so far for my own tastes.  I have heard of people who start saison or Belgian styles high, but I don't care the results of doing that.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2016, 09:09:50 PM »
I think it really depends on what the end goal is. 
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trentm

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2016, 11:18:27 PM »
I think it really depends on what the end goal is.

Please elaborate and give an example.

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 12:09:24 AM »
Not that I've found so far for my own tastes.  I have heard of people who start saison or Belgian styles high, but I don't care the results of doing that.

I've only done one hot fermentation and it did really help to get 3724 to finish.  I don;t detect anything unpleasant in the beer.

What is your 3724 protocol?  I've had too many stuck to mess around with this yeast.  I have not tried open ferm but I'm also using better bottles so I dont know how much benefit I'll get.
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RPIScotty

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Always start low and go high?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 12:17:06 AM »
I think the whole "hot" Belgian fermentation thing is very misunderstood.

Maybe ramping for attenuation varies greatly bit I would wager that most if not all Trappist, Abbey and regional brewers are initially fermenting cool.

I could be wrong but that always been my intuition.

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2016, 12:20:29 AM »
I don't think anyone is recommending hot fermentation for all Belgian yeasts.

But many people are recommending it for 3724 due to the propensity to stall.

It's an extremely fickle yeast.  Hot fermentation (I ran at 85) blows right through the stall.

I just did this on my last batch.  I sent some in to the NHC, we'll see where it goes.
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RPIScotty

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 12:22:40 AM »
I don't think anyone is recommending hot fermentation for all Belgian yeasts.

But many people are recommending it for 3724 due to the propensity to stall.

It's an extremely fickle yeast.  Hot fermentation (I ran at 85) blows right through the stall.

I just did this on my last batch.  I sent some in to the NHC, we'll see where it goes.

Yeah sorry. My post was a bit out of place. I didn't mean to direct it at anyone in particular.

Are you ramping through the stall on the 3724 or starting hot? I've never used it.

Offline narcout

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2016, 12:26:36 AM »
I think it really depends on what the end goal is.

Please elaborate and give an example.

Speaking very generally and ignoring other factors that might be relevant (pitch rate, etc.), pitching cooler tends to produce a cleaner beer with less yeast character. 

That might be desirable for an APA but maybe less so for an ESB.

It's also strain dependent.  You can pitch fairly warm with US-05 and still end up with a relatively clean beer, but if you pitch 1214 much above the mid 60's, you're likely to end up with some banana flavors (at least that has been my experience).
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2016, 12:35:41 AM »
FWIW, from what I understand, Brassiere Dupont does a "hot" primary, then chills down to the mid-upper 60's.

My temperature control currently limits me to only adding heat to a fermentation. That boils down for me to finally have a reason to experiment with Saisons a bit more. I think my next attempt will blend 3724 and WLP 565, per Drew's post on the Maltose Falcons page.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2016, 12:52:18 AM »
I don't think anyone is recommending hot fermentation for all Belgian yeasts.

But many people are recommending it for 3724 due to the propensity to stall.

It's an extremely fickle yeast.  Hot fermentation (I ran at 85) blows right through the stall.

I just did this on my last batch.  I sent some in to the NHC, we'll see where it goes.

Yeah sorry. My post was a bit out of place. I didn't mean to direct it at anyone in particular.

Are you ramping through the stall on the 3724 or starting hot? I've never used it.

No worries.

I meant to ramp but wound up running at 85 throughout.

I just put together an stc 1000 so next time I should have better control.
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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2016, 02:04:48 AM »
I can't think of a strain or a reason why I would pitch higher than my main fermentation temp. I've heard this recommendation for lagers, with the suggested reason being that you want your yeast to start fermentation quickly to minimize the chance for contamination. In my experience, I get excellent results by pitching lagers about 5F lower than my initial fermentation temps. If you're having issues with contamination, then you need something beyond a simple change in pitching temps.
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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2016, 04:27:07 AM »
I can't think of a strain or a reason why I would pitch higher than my main fermentation temp.

I interpreted the OP's post as asking whether you would ever want to pitch at the same temp you plan to ferment at rather than a few degrees below.
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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2016, 05:10:21 AM »
Always start at the low end of the recommended yeast temperature range (possibly even lower).  When primary fermentation subsides, slowly ramp to the desired temperature.

Are there any exceptions (or yeasts that are an exception) to this rule?

That's what they say.  Who "they" are and whether "they" are right, who the hell knows.  We all just blindly do what the Pope tells us to do I guess.  It sure does seem to work well for everyone though, including me.
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Re: Always start low and go high?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2016, 06:19:02 AM »
Always start at the low end of the recommended yeast temperature range (possibly even lower).  When primary fermentation subsides, slowly ramp to the desired temperature.

Are there any exceptions (or yeasts that are an exception) to this rule?
Depends.

I would not pitch warmer than my target temp, then chill. I never chill until the beer is done.

What temp depends on what beer and what you want. An American Pale Ale might benefit from being fermented toward the low end of the recommendations. But an English Pale Ale might not. A higher gravity beer might benefit from starting toward the cool end too.