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Author Topic: My latest peeve....  (Read 8708 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2016, 06:16:28 pm »
I have no clue what someone other than me means by earthy.


Yeah, earthy is vague to me sometimes, too. Hop descriptions in general are all over the place sometimes. Hop companies with new varieties often get a group of people together and get first impressions from people on the character. Whatever they write down turns into what we read on the net. My favorite one is the great new hop Equinox, where one of the descriptions in the list is 'green pepper'. Not exactly desireable in a hop. Probably one person in the room perceived that and it turned into one of the official descriptors. Neither I nor anyone I know who's used it or drank a beer with it perceives that. Differences in perception and terminology can make it tough to be on the same page with anybody at times. 
Jon H.

Offline pete b

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2016, 06:20:08 pm »
I have no clue what someone other than me means by earthy.


Yeah, earthy is vague to me sometimes, too. Hop descriptions in general are all over the place sometimes. Hop companies with new varieties often get a group of people together and get first impressions from people on the character. Whatever they write down turns into what we read on the net. My favorite one is the great new hop Equinox, where one of the descriptions in the list is 'green pepper'. Not exactly desireable in a hop. Probably one person in the room perceived that and it turned into one of the official descriptors. Neither I nor anyone I know who's used it or drank a beer with it perceives that. Differences in perception and terminology can make it tough to be on the same page with anybody at times.
You pretty much need a one on one conversation while tasting the same thing.
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Offline braufessor

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2016, 06:21:44 pm »
A lot of the better beers like this that I have had tend to almost take on a degree of flavor, appearance and mouthfeel of fruit juice.  No - not saying it is just like a glass of orange juice..... but, the best ones do come across as grapefruit, tangerine, peach, orange, etc.....  Because they also use high percentages of flaked grains, the mouthfeel is full and silky to some degree.... like juice.  The beers rely on lots of "tropical" type hops..... Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Amarillo, Simcoe, etc....

The beers tend not to be bitter, sharp, dry, crisp.... rather, the hops are rich and almost coat your mouth... kind of like after you take a swallow of orange juice.

To be honest, I think it is as good or better a descriptor than all kinds of beer terms....

You can't rip on "Juicy" being too vague because you don't know what "kind of juice" it is referring to and on the other hand think that "floral" or "earthy" are good descriptors.  Floral?  What kind of flower?  A rose? A thistle? A marigold?  A Carrion Flower??  Or Earthy.... well "what kind of earth?"  Sand?  Clay? Compost?

I mean we can get ridiculous about EVERY single beer descriptor that exists.  I think people are going out of their way to find something to hate about this description.  If you put a sierra nevada pale ale and a beer from Tree House in front of a thousand beer drinkers and had them pick which one to describe as "juicy" I think the overwhelming majority would pick Tree House.  If you did the same with other beers and had them pick which one was "earthy" or "dank" or "floral" or some other arbitrary beer term.... I think the success rate would be lower. So, if it is something that a lot of people can identify with - it is a fairly good descriptor.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 06:25:42 pm by braufessor »

Offline fmader

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2016, 06:23:22 pm »
I have no clue what someone other than me means by earthy.

Lol very true. I use dank to describe the flavor and aroma of Columbus. By definition, one could refer that to a cold, damp, musty basement smell. That doesn't seem appealing at all. But if dank means that the flavor and aroma are similar to the stickiest of the ickiest, well that's a horse of a different color.

Grassy... I would prefer fescue over blue grass; floral... Roses don't smell as nice as lilies do; earthy... Let's not church it up too much. We're talking dirt here; juicy... I would appreciate the texture of cranberry juice in a beer over, say, OJ.

"That beer taste fruity!" What fruit? Nobody bats an eye at that though.

We tend to use broad terms as descriptors, however, we all, once we figure it out, have a generalized idea of what we are describing is.

A couple years ago, I remember a thread similar to this about "resin" as a descriptor.
Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2016, 06:24:57 pm »
You pretty much need a one on one conversation while tasting the same thing.


Yeah, pretty close.
Jon H.

RPIScotty

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2016, 06:27:30 pm »
Call me crazy but beer descriptors and adjectives almost universally make the user sound like a tool. I try to steer clear of overly descriptive terms. I like, "It tastes English", "It tastes Belgian", etc.

Chalk it up to my inability to describe beer. Maybe that's a negative.

I tend to cringe when I hear things like, "my mouth danced delightfully with the taste of peachy pear fruit esters as the mouthfeel exploded onto my pallete with an earthy, resiney phenolic blast of....."

I get trying to really nail down flavors, aromas, etc but this over description of malt, hops, water and yeast makes my skin crawl sometimes.


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BurghBeezer

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2016, 06:46:42 pm »
Except floral is literally the same compounds in hops as those found in almost all common flowers (Geraniol=geraniums&roses, Nerol=roses, Linalool=lavender)* 

And drive to home depot and stick your finger in potting soil and voila, earthy.

* http://resources.schoolscience.co.uk/ICI/16plus/smells/smellsch2pg4.html
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 06:48:20 pm by BurghBeezer »

Offline erockrph

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2016, 07:14:38 pm »
Except floral is literally the same compounds in hops as those found in almost all common flowers (Geraniol=geraniums&roses, Nerol=roses, Linalool=lavender)* 

And drive to home depot and stick your finger in potting soil and voila, earthy.

* http://resources.schoolscience.co.uk/ICI/16plus/smells/smellsch2pg4.html
I disagree to an extent here. You can't isolate a single chemical or small group of chemicals and say that "this is floral" or "this is rose". For example, I get more fruit and wood from geraniol than floral. It is really close to lemon Pledge to my nose. (Yes, I have pure geraniol at home). Aroma is a pretty complex combination of components at varying amounts - too much to try to narrow it down like that.

Back to the "juicy" descriptor, I think it's a relatively good descriptor as marketing buzzwords go. Personally, I only refer to "juicy mouthfeel" when describing beer. I think that's pretty clear. With the exception of astringent fruits like cranberries and pomegranate, almost every juice leaves a coating mouthfeel with a slight slickness and a bit of mouthwatering acidity.
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narvin

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2016, 07:19:39 pm »
Clearly, it's juicy like a rare steak or a burger.  The meaty drippings of an animal's flesh... fat, myoglobin, broken down connective tissue, all coming together to make  delicious beer.

Offline Pricelessbrewing

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2016, 07:36:28 pm »

I tend to cringe when I hear things like, "my mouth danced delightfully with the taste of peachy pear fruit esters as the mouthfeel exploded onto my pallete with an earthy, resiney phenolic blast of....."

I get trying to really nail down flavors, aromas, etc but this over description of malt, hops, water and yeast makes my skin crawl sometimes.

I completely agree on the first part. Go ahead and use the descriptors and terms you want, phenolic, fruity, peach/ripefruit/whatever. That's all fine, but you're not writing another poetic edda here, no need for the prose. That sort of thing makes me want to punch them in the teeth for being so pompous.

Edit: Back the to the topic on hand.

I see "Juicy" to be similar to fruity, but more of a citrus/bright fruit + some perceived sweetness thing rather than the ripe/dark/stone fruit sort of thing.

Offline neddles

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2016, 07:44:58 pm »
I don't know… I get an elitist stink when people start telling other people how they can and can't describe their beer. Calling it peeve suggests that you think it is wrong. Juicy seems pretty straight forward. I would use it not as a specific flavor descriptor but maybe a shorter way of saying the beer has both a bright and fruity presentation.

Offline kgs

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2016, 08:08:38 pm »
I don't know… I get an elitist stink when people start telling other people how they can and can't describe their beer. Calling it peeve suggests that you think it is wrong. Juicy seems pretty straight forward. I would use it not as a specific flavor descriptor but maybe a shorter way of saying the beer has both a bright and fruity presentation.

I am far from a hipster but I have tasted beers that are definitely, to my palate, juicy. Neddles gets it exactly right: bright and fruity. Sculpin (not just the grapefruit variation) is like this. It's a bright, mouth-filling sensation. Not perfume-y (I'm looking at you, watermelon Dorado... couldn't finish a bottle) but that sensation when you bite on segments of  a fresh mandarin or clementine and experience that rush of citrus and hydration.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2016, 08:46:06 pm »
I can see both sides of this now after reading through it all. but here is my question; Juicy is mainly used as a descriptor of mouthfeel from what I gather, at least in the NEIPA debate. Is is a different sensation than full, or thin, which are much more commomnly used to describe mouthfeel? If its really about renaming mouthfeel sensations, then it really is just the trendy, jargonistic creative writing of person or persons trying to be different or possibly even vague. In the end, that is not a problem, as it can help to create desire. I probably wont use the term, but I guess I can accept it. Not trying to stir anything more, actually just trying to understand the need for the phrase that was not needed 2 or more years ago
edit to add: I once dated a lovely young lady who began to wear Juicy Couture sunglasses. She did not last long, so mayhaps i am personally biased  ::)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 09:19:42 pm by 69franx »
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2016, 09:14:47 pm »
My piney beer is cat piss to my wife.

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Offline BrodyR

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Re: My latest peeve....
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2016, 09:41:42 pm »
Have a modern East Coast/New England/North East/Vermont style (whatever you want to call it) IPA and you should realize it's a pretty accurate description. In my opinion it's a hell of a lot more accurate than spicy for Saaz.

A typical 'juicy' beer will have massive dry hops leading to a very fruity flavor but not a lot of bitterness.

In addition, they tend to have a water profile heavier in Chloride and lighter in Sulfite than is typical for an IPA, english yeast character, and probably some oats or wheat. Which all contribute to a very different body and mouthfeel.

If a beer is hazy, slightly acidic, and bursting with citrusy tropical fruit aromas it's tough to think of a better descriptor than juicy.