[MDixon]

I've found that step mash and decoction can add complexity, but with most styles only to the tune of a point or two on a score sheet at competition. Typically not worth the effort, but for a competition whore it might make the difference between 1st place and 3rd.

[denny]

This answers my questions. I always wondered if there was a "is it worth it factor". Maybe something to try, with a certain style...but seems not the case anymore. Never done a step mash, and now probably never will.

That's been my motivation in the past (in particular when using pilsner malt).  I don't think I've ever used that malt with an infusion mash as I don't use if very often.  But perhaps in the future it's worth a shot.

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.  Single infusion at 148F for 90 minutes.  Delicious beer, crystal clear.

[FaradayUncaged]

This answers my questions. I always wondered if there was a "is it worth it factor". Maybe something to try, with a certain style...but seems not the case anymore. Never done a step mash, and now probably never will.

That's been my motivation in the past (in particular when using pilsner malt).  I don't think I've ever used that malt with an infusion mash as I don't use if very often.  But perhaps in the future it's worth a shot.

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.  Single infusion at 148F for 90 minutes.  Delicious beer, crystal clear.

Excellent.  So perhaps just stick with a longer infusion mash when using such malts and call it a day.  I'm going to have to try this out soon (for science).

[HoosierBrew]

This answers my questions. I always wondered if there was a "is it worth it factor". Maybe something to try, with a certain style...but seems not the case anymore. Never done a step mash, and now probably never will.

That's been my motivation in the past (in particular when using pilsner malt).  I don't think I've ever used that malt with an infusion mash as I don't use if very often.  But perhaps in the future it's worth a shot.

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.  Single infusion at 148F for 90 minutes.  Delicious beer, crystal clear.

Excellent.  So perhaps just stick with a longer infusion mash when using such malts and call it a day.  I'm going to have to try this out soon (for science).

I've single infused lagers almost exclusively until recently when I tried step mashing again. Works perfectly fine.

[HoosierBrew]

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.

Denny, how do you like this malt as compared to standard Weyermann ? I'd like to try it.

[denny]

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.

Denny, how do you like this malt as compared to standard Weyermann ? I'd like to try it.

I'd have to have it side by side to say for sure, but I _think_ the flavor is a touch more bready and "full".  Geez, I'm the guy who b****es about "juicy" and then I go and say that!

[HoosierBrew]

I'd have to have it side by side to say for sure, but I _think_ the flavor is a touch more bready and "full".  Geez, I'm the guy who b****es about "juicy" and then I go and say that!

That's a good enough description for me.     Thanks.

[charles1968]

It's interesting that the beers were very similar yet a significant number of people could tell them apart. Something to please everyone there. I do wonder if the difference might have been slightly more perceptible if a yeast with more subtle flavour was used, eg German lager.

I don't step mash and don't intend to start. If I had a Braumeister I might well do it for certain recipes. Seems more trouble than it's worth for normal homebrew setups.

[trentm]

I do wonder if the difference might have been slightly more perceptible if a yeast with more subtle flavour was used, eg German lager.

Lager yeast actually converts less ferulic acid to 4-vinyl guaiacol because lager brewers don't want that nasty stuff in their bier, hence why I previously stated that the yeast should have been a weissbier yeast to maximize the conversion.

[erockrph]

I do wonder if the difference might have been slightly more perceptible if a yeast with more subtle flavour was used, eg German lager.

Lager yeast actually converts less ferulic acid to 4-vinyl guaiacol because lager brewers don't want that nasty stuff in their bier, hence why I previously stated that the yeast should have been a weissbier yeast to maximize the conversion.

I guess it depends on what you're testing. If you're specifically testing the production of 4VG via a ferulic acid rest, then something like 3068 is the way to go. If you're testing whether a step mash affects body or other detectable differences in a non-POF+ style beer (if that makes sense), then a Helles using a clean lager yeast and something like a Hochkurz mash schedule would probably be what I'd shoot for.

[duelerx]

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.  Single infusion at 148F for 90 minutes.  Delicious beer, crystal clear.

I also would like to try this malt. how do you compare it with Floor Malted Bohemian Pils?

[brulosopher]

This answers my questions. I always wondered if there was a "is it worth it factor". Maybe something to try, with a certain style...but seems not the case anymore. Never done a step mash, and now probably never will.

That's been my motivation in the past (in particular when using pilsner malt).  I don't think I've ever used that malt with an infusion mash as I don't use if very often.  But perhaps in the future it's worth a shot.

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.  Single infusion at 148F for 90 minutes.  Delicious beer, crystal clear.

I want to try this malt so bad!

This answers my questions. I always wondered if there was a "is it worth it factor". Maybe something to try, with a certain style...but seems not the case anymore. Never done a step mash, and now probably never will.

That's been my motivation in the past (in particular when using pilsner malt).  I don't think I've ever used that malt with an infusion mash as I don't use if very often.  But perhaps in the future it's worth a shot.

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.  Single infusion at 148F for 90 minutes.  Delicious beer, crystal clear.

Excellent.  So perhaps just stick with a longer infusion mash when using such malts and call it a day.  I'm going to have to try this out soon (for science).

I've mashed for different lengths, 15-120 minutes, many side by side, and I honestly can tell a difference.

[beersk]

Well, I think the Belgian yeast covers up anything you'll be able to reliably tell, although 66 tastes could tell, which I thought was staggering.

A future exbeeriment would be to test a 60/60 145/162F step mash on a helles. And I'm surprised there was no mention of the mouth feel of the beer. The hochmash was short, but should've provided at least a bit more body. And someone mentioned earlier about no wheat being used, which is typically the main malt when used in conjunction with a ferulic acid rest.

I definitely think there is some merit to step mashing. Do you think the Germans would spend so much time making their excellent beer if it was all for naught? I know I can perceive a difference. Even if it's subtle, it takes, what would be a good beer, to a great beer.

Dave, I don't think beta and alpha amylase enzymes are working at full power in a 150F rest. Just like yeast, there are temperature ranges where they work best and provide the most benefits to the wort profile.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

I do wonder if the difference might have been slightly more perceptible if a yeast with more subtle flavour was used, eg German lager.

Lager yeast actually converts less ferulic acid to 4-vinyl guaiacol because lager brewers don't want that nasty stuff in their bier, hence why I previously stated that the yeast should have been a weissbier yeast to maximize the conversion.

yep difference in ale vs lager yeast and starch conversion..."Starch conversion is the most important aspect of mashing. In barley starch makes up 63% - 65% of the dry weight. Starch is a polysaccarid (very large chains of glucose) which is insoluble in water. Brewer's yeast, however, can only ferment monosacharides (glucose), disacharides (maltose) and trisacharides (matotriose). The latter can only be completely fermented by lager yeast strains (s. uvarum).- Kai
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Theory_of_Mashing

not arguing or trying to convince otherwise-as Ive come to my own conclusions based upon my experiences. if done correctly-time, temp, ph , and perhaps if your able to discern differences (might be genetic disposition related to taste and senses) then you will see a difference...just my opinion.

[Steve Ruch]

I just made a German pils with 100% Weyermann Barke pils malt.  Single infusion at 148F for 90 minutes.  Delicious beer, crystal clear.

My last pils used Bestmaltz pilsner malt at 150f for 60 minutes that turned out really good and I can't see where all the trouble of a step mash would improve it enough to make it worthwhile.