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Author Topic: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?  (Read 4432 times)

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 09:44:15 am »
I've gone to fermenting my Scottish ales with US-05 and that works well in producing a clean and malty ale. They are clear too. I do use a large proportion of Golden Promise. Since these are small beers, my mashing temp is a little elevated to reduce fermentability and increase body. I also use a caramalized reduction of first runnings that I found adds a deep maltiness to the beer. I do add Irish Moss in the boil to help with clarity.

I agree that there must be an ingredient in Paul's grist that is causing a haze.  I think its atypical for a Scottish to be cloudy or hazy.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2016, 09:46:36 am »
toby I think you may have identified the issue - my guess is maybe I did not mash long enough - 90% of my brewing over the years is german lager and American ale, so pils and rahr 2row are my norm.

I mashed at 152 for 50 min before raising to 168 for mashout. 

I used 002 not Edinburgh as I had just made a red extra IPA with the former 2 weeks prior, otherwise I would have.

What I did also note was that my attenuation was significantly lower than I expected.  I got 71% on this beer, whereas my norm for 002 is 75-80%, in fact I hit ~78% on the previous beer from which the slurry came.

The beer is very very good, mind you, but the I compared it to Dirty Bastard yesterday - the aroma lacks what I would consider the higher notes of caramelly rich malt, almost doppelbock like notes, and is not nearly as crisp in the finish as the 'control' beer.  My beer feels more full and creamy in mouthfeel. Head retention is much greater in mine.

i'll take your advice and mash a bit longer next time I make this and maybe even just do a long boil rather than the boildown - easy enough. 

I think I'd also like to look into my grist composition a bit more - I like the deeper, darker color and complexity of DB than what I made which was 81% GP, 15% Dark Munich and 4% Eng Med Crystal. 
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Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 09:49:32 am »
As close as I get to Scotch ale is wee heavy. 

I made a wee heavy, I guess I always thought Scotch Ale and Wee Heavy were one in the same.  my bad.
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Offline toby

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2016, 10:20:29 am »
I mashed at 152 for 50 min before raising to 168 for mashout. 

I used 002 not Edinburgh as I had just made a red extra IPA with the former 2 weeks prior, otherwise I would have.

What I did also note was that my attenuation was significantly lower than I expected.  I got 71% on this beer, whereas my norm for 002 is 75-80%, in fact I hit ~78% on the previous beer from which the slurry came.

The beer is very very good, mind you, but the I compared it to Dirty Bastard yesterday - the aroma lacks what I would consider the higher notes of caramelly rich malt, almost doppelbock like notes, and is not nearly as crisp in the finish as the 'control' beer.  My beer feels more full and creamy in mouthfeel. Head retention is much greater in mine.

i'll take your advice and mash a bit longer next time I make this and maybe even just do a long boil rather than the boildown - easy enough. 

Yeah, definitely increase your mash time.  The head retention also points to proteins.  Fullers yeast is passable, but you'll get some slightly different characteristics.  That shouldn't make a difference in haze or attenuation, though.  Looks like mash time is it.

Quote
I think I'd also like to look into my grist composition a bit more - I like the deeper, darker color and complexity of DB than what I made which was 81% GP, 15% Dark Munich and 4% Eng Med Crystal.

Scotch ale doesn't need to be a complicated malt bill at all.  Mine is ~88% pale ale malt, 8% c10, ~2% carafoam, and ~2% roasted barley.

I made a wee heavy, I guess I always thought Scotch Ale and Wee Heavy were one in the same.  my bad.

No, you're right.  Strong Scotch Ale and Wee Heavy are the same thing.  Lower strength Scots ales are typically referred to as Scottish ales these days.

Offline denny

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2016, 11:17:34 am »
As close as I get to Scotch ale is wee heavy. 

I made a wee heavy, I guess I always thought Scotch Ale and Wee Heavy were one in the same.  my bad.

You're right!  I read your post as "Scottish ale", which I take to be the lower gravity version.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2016, 12:10:33 pm »
Glad I was not the only one confused by the terminology, or was I?
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Offline toby

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2016, 01:11:37 pm »
Generally speaking, 'Scotch' is supposed to refer a narrow range of things like Scotch Eggs, or Scotch Whisky.  Scots refer to the people and things that belong to them, i.e Scots' Ales.  Scottish seems to have been more popularized recently to apply there too (at one point, I remember it being considered somewhat of an insult to refer to a product of the Scots as Scottish since most 'ish' things are taken to be 'kinda like but not really' the thing they modify).  So, Scottish or Scots ales are generally referring to the non-Wee Heavies of the Scots.  They used to be referred to by the taxation level, but that is also apparently less common today.

All that being said, when someone mentions a Scotch Ale, I nearly always assume a Wee Heavy.  Scottish Ale, I take to mean the lower strength Scots Ales.

Offline 69franx

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2016, 02:00:48 pm »
And in the end "If it's not Scottish, it's craap " in my best Mike Myers voice
Frank L.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2016, 04:28:06 pm »
Starting to believe it's the Simpsons Golden Promise I used.  I used it in a California common as the base malt (same sack) and it is cloudy as hell.  WL810 is usually a great floccer. PH on the Mash for this one was 5.35 and final pH is 4.3.
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Offline denny

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2016, 10:59:30 am »
Starting to believe it's the Simpsons Golden Promise I used.  I used it in a California common as the base malt (same sack) and it is cloudy as hell.  WL810 is usually a great floccer. PH on the Mash for this one was 5.35 and final pH is 4.3.

Last wee heavy I made with Simpson's GP and Wy1728 dropped crystal clear.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2016, 11:12:10 am »
Starting to believe it's the Simpsons Golden Promise I used.  I used it in a California common as the base malt (same sack) and it is cloudy as hell.  WL810 is usually a great floccer. PH on the Mash for this one was 5.35 and final pH is 4.3.

Last wee heavy I made with Simpson's GP and Wy1728 dropped crystal clear.

Yes - and I too have made clear scotch ale with Simpsons before.  But I think it may be this particular sack/lot, given that two highly flocculent yeasts were used and my pH was spot on.
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Offline denny

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2016, 11:20:30 am »
Starting to believe it's the Simpsons Golden Promise I used.  I used it in a California common as the base malt (same sack) and it is cloudy as hell.  WL810 is usually a great floccer. PH on the Mash for this one was 5.35 and final pH is 4.3.

Last wee heavy I made with Simpson's GP and Wy1728 dropped crystal clear.

Yes - and I too have made clear scotch ale with Simpsons before.  But I think it may be this particular sack/lot, given that two highly flocculent yeasts were used and my pH was spot on.

Yep, sounds logical.  IIRC, it was a difficult year for barley in Europe.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2016, 11:27:54 am »
Uh oh. I just used Golden Promise in an Old Speckled Hen-ish. Hope it drops clear

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2016, 11:47:27 am »
I used it in an ESB and in an Irish Red. Both are crystal clear in the keg. Could be the lot, Paul.

Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2016, 08:47:50 am »
How long did u mash @ brewinhard? 60 min here
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