Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?  (Read 4234 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2016, 05:25:15 pm »
I am an anal SOB.  I detest oxidation. I have always followed the rule of thumb (as Denny stated) as 80F or below before I start moving the wort rapidly to chill it faster with my crappy IC.

For those of you not worrying about this, have you observed any ill effects (HSA potential) from long term aging of beers?  For example, if one is rapidly stirring wort at 185F for a hop stand, I am assuming that the massive hop flavors/aromas combined with consuming the beer rather quickly (as IPA's usually are) would help to mask any initial oxidation potentially contributed from HSA (if any at all occur).  Just curious about aging beer with regards to this, as I (and many others) were curious with Brulosophers Exbeeriment on this topic as well.
For me- 1yr has been max for aged beer. No issues at all.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2016, 07:07:51 pm »
Just haven't found the issues. Can't speak for hoppy beers, they go fast, and need to go fast. I detest oxidation too, just find HSA pretty overstated. My (non hoppy) beers age well.
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8604
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2016, 07:29:45 pm »
I saw some photos of open swan neck lautering systems and decided that HSA will never be a concern for me. I suppose it's a possible cause of sherry notes in high gravity dark beers that are very old, or not.

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2016, 10:15:27 pm »
Didn't Marshall do an Exbeeriment that totally debunked HSA for homebrewing?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11326
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2016, 07:01:40 am »
HSA aside, there is no reason to start aerating you wort until it is below 80 degrees. Hot wort is less able to dissolve o2 into solution anyway. While concerns of HSA may be over blown I agree with Denny, it's not really ever challenging to avoid aerating hot wort so best just to avoid or minimize it as much as possible.

RPIScotty

  • Guest
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2016, 08:35:50 am »
Didn't Marshall do an Exbeeriment that totally debunked HSA for homebrewing?

It would take much more than one experiment to debunk anything.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2016, 08:41:02 am »
Didn't Marshall do an Exbeeriment that totally debunked HSA for homebrewing?

Neither Marshall's or our experiments "totally debunk" anything.  They are just data points to take into consideration.

In over 18 years, I have had only one batch become badly oxidized due to what I believe is HSA.  I can't be sure that's what it was but it's easy to avoid, so that's what I do.  Splashing sparge water will not oxidize your wort.  Neither will gentle stirring or recirculation after the boil.  All you need to do is avoid practices that really get O2 into the wort.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BrewingRover

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Brewing in Flossmoor, IL
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2016, 08:44:00 am »
I saw some photos of open swan neck lautering systems and decided that HSA will never be a concern for me. I suppose it's a possible cause of sherry notes in high gravity dark beers that are very old, or not.

Yeah, when I saw all the foam that was present in Anchor's lautering, I decided not to worry, too.

That's a great tour, BTW.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2016, 10:13:50 pm »
Didn't Marshall do an Exbeeriment that totally debunked HSA for homebrewing?

Neither Marshall's or our experiments "totally debunk" anything.  They are just data points to take into consideration.

In over 18 years, I have had only one batch become badly oxidized due to what I believe is HSA.  I can't be sure that's what it was but it's easy to avoid, so that's what I do.  Splashing sparge water will not oxidize your wort.  Neither will gentle stirring or recirculation after the boil.  All you need to do is avoid practices that really get O2 into the wort.
OK, "totally" was an over-the-top adjective after too many homebrews.   :-[   My point was that stirring and recirculation while hot is not going unlikely to screw up your beer.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2016, 10:42:20 am »

OK, "totally" was an over-the-top adjective after too many homebrews.   :-[   My point was that GENTLE stirring and recirculation while hot is not going unlikely to screw up your beer.

See my edit....
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3272
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2016, 12:01:23 pm »
Didn't Marshall do an Exbeeriment that totally debunked HSA for homebrewing?

It would take much more than one experiment to debunk anything.

As fun as Marshall's exbeeriment was on HSA, he was unable to provide any data points for long term aging of the beer as both kegs (IIRC) were drained pretty quickly.  I wish he had some long term (6-9 mos) to see if any ill effects arise.

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: When cooling boiling wort, at what temp is it safe to begin agitating?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2016, 09:16:35 pm »

OK, "totally" was an over-the-top adjective after too many homebrews.   :-[   My point was that GENTLE stirring and recirculation while hot is not going unlikely to screw up your beer.

See my edit....
OK, I'll defer to that.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.