[chumley]

Dankness is probably the most common off-flavor I find in home and craft brew, but usually that is the result of some chucklehead using too much CTZ hops. 

[hopfenundmalz]

Dankness is probably the most common off-flavor I find in home and craft brew, but usually that is the result of some chucklehead using too much CTZ hops. 

What, no juicy?

I kid.

[theoman]

I don't know why but very often when I drink relatively low quality homebrews, I  taste astringency and some phenolic off-flavors that I can't describe very accurately.

I know what you mean. I do think it borders on astringency. It's like a combination too-high ph in the mash, too much high-alpha acid hops early in the boil without the body to back it up and bad sanitation at bottling. I've noticed it repeatedly in homebrews that have been given to me over the years (a couple times in my own to a lesser extent, so I believe). Very strange.

I remember first experiencing this phenomenon a number of years ago when a variety pack was given to me by an "award-winning" homebrewer. I couldn't drink any of them. It was then that I decided that I would never enter a competition.

[homoeccentricus]

bad sanitation at bottling.

Interesting. How do you know that's one of the problems?

[theoman]

bad sanitation at bottling.

Interesting. How do you know that's one of the problems?

Purely a speculative example. I could've just stopped at "bad sanitation".

[homoeccentricus]

You are confirming my suspicions: pH too high and bad sanitation. But of course nobody will admit to the latter.

[reverseapachemaster]

If the astringency is tannin-based then there will be bitterness with the drying sensation. Not the same bitterness as iso-alpha acid bitterness. The pecan reference is what I think of as a near-pure expression of tannins.

Locally we have very bad water. It's highly chlorinated and full of bicarbonate. A lot of local beers are made with municipal water and end up with chlorophenols and/or an unpleasant sharp minerality. Otherwise I see a lot of the same off-flavors already mentioned.

[MDixon]

If you want to experience astringency go to your local well stocked bar and ask for a taste of Campari. Now here's where it get's tricky. Ignore the smell, appearance, and taste and just think about the sensations as you drink it and afterwards on your palate. It will not take much unless you are Italian in which case you probably had it on your pacifier as a child.

[theoman]

If you want to experience astringency go to your local well stocked bar and ask for a taste of Campari. Now here's where it get's tricky. Ignore the smell, appearance, and taste and just think about the sensations as you drink it and afterwards on your palate. It will not take much unless you are Italian in which case you probably had it on your pacifier as a child.

I'll test this out. I never thought of Campari as astringent. Maybe the line between harshly bitter and astringent is even finer than we think. Maybe I'm not noticing because of the orange just mixed in 

[homoeccentricus]

The "bitterness with the drying sensation" is useful, thanks.

Hey, maybe someone should make a Campari-gruit beer. The bitter ingredients supposedly are (a.o.?) cascarilla bark, gentian, calamus, and chinotto. Oh mighty One-True-Drew?

[pete b]

I drink Campari pretty often and always noticed bitter but not astringency. I'll have to check it out when I get home. I think it tastes a lot like grapefruit.
I always think of tea when I think of astringency, especially over steeped tea. Actually I thought tea was sort of the universal example of astringency. I sometimes put tea in meads to purposely create some astringency to create a counterpoint to sweetness. Astringency is definitely not always a flaw.

[HoosierBrew]

I always think of tea when I think of astringency, especially over steeped tea. Actually I thought tea was sort of the universal example of astringency.

Yeah, over steeped tea is the best example I can think of, too. As said, it's more a sensation than a flavor.

[brewinhard]

Suck on a teabag after its steeped in water for a while.  Now that is astringency.

[euge]

When I was learning about wine, a series of brewed tea was used as an example to demonstrate the major flavors- dry, sweet, astringent, bitter, sour etc.

[Pinski]

When I was learning about wine, a series of brewed tea was used as an example to demonstrate the major flavors- dry, sweet, astringent, bitter, sour etc.

That is a really good example.  Just thinking about it, teas could be a VERY useful tool in sensory practice classes. Note to self.