Author Topic: Brett Kamut Saison  (Read 1049 times)

Offline Phil_M

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Brett Kamut Saison
« on: April 12, 2016, 12:46:21 AM »
I've been thinking about brewing a beer like this for a while. I now feel I'm confident enough with my sanitization (thank you iodophor) to introduce Brett B. into my brewery.  I'm Probably being overly cautious waiting this long to use Brett, but I'm paranoid, but don't mind me. Cultured up the dregs of a bottle of Orval today, going to slowly step it into a normal-sized starter over the week. Brew day is scheduled for Saturday, with a backup on Sunday in case I have to work.

I've long had a plan to brew an Orval-esque beer utilizing a Saison yeast. I made a blend of my recent Saison with the Orval I used to start my culture, and I like how the pale malty saison and the Orval worked together. My wife found some puffed gamut cereal (single ingredient) that I'd like to use as well.


After looking at several different Orval clone recipes, here's my planned grist:

Target OG: 1.060
5.5 gallon batch

40% Dingemann's Belgian Pilsner Malt
25% Briess Pale Ale malt
20% Weyermann Dark Munich malt
15% Torrified (puffed) Kamut

I figure the brett will dry the beer out nicely, so I'll mash at 150o for 90 minutes. Same relative process as my last saison, just a slightly higher temp.

For hops, I'm aiming a bit high as I intend to age this beer for a long time, 1 year or more, to allow the brett to really develop. Will higher IBU levels impact the Brett?

Target 40 IBU

60 minutes:
20 IBU Hallertau Mittelfrueh
15 IBU EKG.

5 minutes:
5 IBU EKG

Might dry hop with Saaz or EKG, for grins.

Yeast:

1L starter of Orval dregs, fermented out, chilled, and decanted.
1L shaken not stirred starter of Wyeast 3724

Ferment in a 6.5 gallon carboy with Fermcap S to avoid using any sort of blowoff tube. Use foil over the mouth of the carboy until the initial krausen starts to dissipate, then switch to an airlock. I'll chill to the mid/upper 60's, then let the beer free rise in temp for the first few days. Once the airlock goes on I'll start ramping up tempts a degree or two a day, probably till 80ish degrees. My understanding is that the brett will enjoy the heat as well.

My concerns are the higher IBU levels messing with the brett, and the pilsner malt/pale ale mast not being enough to convert the Veinna malt/torrified wheat. Not being that familiar with brett, I might bulk age the beer for a few months in secondary. (I've got 5 gallon glass carboys) I don't want to risk bottle bombs, and I really have no idea how much the brett will attenuate things. I'm also concerned with the brett getting too funky/weird with the elevated temps.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 11:37:27 AM by Phil_M »
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Brett Kamut Saison
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 02:34:23 PM »
You have plenty enough pilsener and pale ale malts to convert the kamut and dark munich.  I believe that the Dark Munich is able to convert itself too. 


Offline brewinhard

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Re: Brett Kamut Saison
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 05:42:44 PM »
I would plan on letting the brett beer sit in secondary for at least 3-4 mos (most likely a bit more).  The brett will attenuate very slowly and drive down your FG. When aging brett beers, I have found that I enjoy the flavor/aroma profile the best when temps were kept cool (as in low 60's).  This keeps the brett phenolics in check and can sometimes minimize the goaty, sweaty, hairy balls that brett can bring to the mix.

If you are looking to brew a brett saison, you may want to consider fermenting with the saison yeast first.  That way you can ramp up the temps as high as you want to. Then, after the saison yeast does its thing, rack to a secondary and add your brett starter. You will get good results in this method as long as you are patient prior to packaging.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Brett Kamut Saison
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 10:59:27 PM »
Personally I've moved away from using much munich in my saisons but it sounds like you have a particular vision and the munich may fit it. With both the pale ale malt and munich it may retain a lot of maltiness. No expected problems with conversion with that recipe.

The IBUs will not be a problem for brett. It's a yeast and unaffected by IBUs. I typically up the IBUs myself when I am aging saisons for exactly the same reason. I also like the tannic structure left behind by the hops after the bitterness has dropped off and the beer has dried out.

Expect that the beer will go down into the low single digits on gravity and probably reach terminal gravity around 4-6 months. Flavors will continue to develop afterwards but you'll be safe to bottle after that time.

I tend to pitch everything up front in my mixed fermentations and with my saisons I get them into the 80s. I have no problems with the flavors developed. I cut the heat after about a week or so (once primary fermentation is over) and let it rest at ambient until bottling. I'm not sure what would happen if you kept the beer in the 80s on a long term basis though.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Brett Kamut Saison
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2016, 11:45:25 PM »
Ambient temps in fermentation area throughout the summer are usually low 70's. I'm thinking I'll inoculate with the Orval dregs at a lower ratio to the saison yeast, and only ramp up to the upper 70's for a week/10 days at the most. After that, bulk age at ambient temps till bottling. That way the brett should have a longer lag time, and ought to be ramping up in a way that it won't be fully subjected to the warmer temps. I also might not cool it down quite as much.

My thought with the munich is that the beer will end up so dry it won't really affect the final outcome in terms of mouthfeel. I also feel like the beer needs a substantial malty flavor, or else it'll get "lost" in the final product.

How effective is Fermcap S at suppressing massive krausen explosions? This will be my first time using it.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline dilluh98

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Re: Brett Kamut Saison
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2016, 09:30:38 PM »

How effective is Fermcap S at suppressing massive krausen explosions? This will be my first time using it.

I use 1-2 drops in the boil as I fill my kettle quite full and boil hard. I've never had krausen get more than 3 inches thick on even the most vigorous fermentations.

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Brett Kamut Saison
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2016, 11:59:02 PM »
Ok, so I ended up changing the hopping up slightly based on what I had available. Battered at 90 minutes with an ounce each of EKG and German Tradition. Hit it with 1 oz. EKG at 5 minutes as planned.

Hit my pre-boil gravity on the nose, missed my OG by 0.002. Not bad at all.

Ended up pitching the 3724 shaken not stirred starter and the dregs of a bottle of Orval together. Beer was chilled to the mid 60's, I'll let it free rise for the first day or two. Right now I've got an airlock on it, but I'll probably remove that in the morning. I dosed the 5.5 gal batch with 11 drops of Fermcap S, hopefully I don't get a blow out.

I do have some more Orval dregs that I pitched into some of the media bottles I have prepped for culturing, I may dump them in later if it seems like the Brett isn't taking hold. Will Orval dregs form a pellicle?
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.