[klickitat jim]

For some reason the narrator voice from that old super heroes cartoon is stuck in my ears. "Meanwhile..."

[narvin]

I'm sorry, I made a mistake and I need to apologize.  I spelled "dialogue" wrong.  I can't blame autocorrect, either.
 

[klickitat jim]

In fairness, if this guy Brian has been brewing and on these forums for all these years, I can see how he might have snapped and turned out this way. As cool as this forum is, there is a constant push back against anything new. Or against old ways that are different from the cool new accepted way. It can be a simple as a peice of tape showing volume increase in a starter, or a chunk of pvc with a gas-in connector on it. Or something insanely out there like not using a stir plate. The knee jerk reaction is almost always to tear it down rather than try it. I dont think most people mean anything by it. Its just habbit probably. So I could see some possibly legit reason why someone might say they know a trick but their not going to share it. It does get a little tiresome.

[Stevie]

Did your feelings get hurt over the gas stick? I thought it was a resourceful idea, but whatever.

[klickitat jim]

Feelings hurt? Am I your 12 year old sister? No dude, I didnt cry about it. If theres no one interested in my simple little problem fixes, thats cool by me. But it is an example of how we go after anything that doesn't fit out world.

[Stevie]

Who went after it? I saw a couple of people offer alternate solutions but I didn't see anything that demonstrated "going after it." Maybe I missed something, but that thread is gone.

There will always be differing opinions, but it's a good thing. As long as people are cool and not dicks to each other, we can take it.

Again, poor Nick D. He asked a question and it turned into all sorts of bulls***.

[klickitat jim]

I gave two other examples Steve. Do you know anyone here who has gotten wound up about starters without stirplates?

[Stevie]

Sure. The way that thread started and without the associated link it made it seem as if you were trashing stirplates. In my opinion both work.

As for the tape, I don't know if I remember that one.

[klickitat jim]

No im talking about the guff Mark toleratted for like two months. My thread about the video was about the laundry list of wrong stuff on that AHA yeast video. The video was so bad it got taken down before I could get my post typed.

The tape thing was simple. With photos showing that if there's an increase in volume, probably its from yeast growth. That got slammed as not being possible, or it was gas bubbles, or some other thing.

My point is, this forum is not free of its issues. And this side debate is kind of proving the point.

[Stevie]

The world isn't free of its issues. There are at least two dudes in my new club that I can't stand and I bet there are at least two dudes that can't stand me. People are people man.

At least we don't talk politics and religion.

[klickitat jim]

Ha! No kidding.

[Nick_D]

It was at 1.013 at 41F? That means it should be more like 1.011-1.012 at 68F. It reads higher when it's colder.

Bingo - I missed that. Your hydrometer will have a calibration chart that you need to use according to temp. If you are using a tight ranged la thermometer, for instance, it could be off many points at cooler or warmer temps. Sounds like you are probably right in your range after all.

OP here..... wow, things got out hand quickly!

The gravity reading was done with a refractometer (with alcohol correction), sample warmed to 20C. I mentioned the lower temperature, as a reference for how far the beer has fermented, vs how far I had lowered the temp, not in regards to the temp of the actual sample I measured. Sorry for the confusion.

The mash schedule was hochkurz double decoction with rests at 143 and 158.

I have had the beer sitting at 20 C (68 F) for a few days now, and it has dropped to 1.012, and seems to be working slowly still. It is still pretty 'green' so I'm hoping a little longer at this raised temp will clean it up a bit more (Including of course, a good months lagering also). How clean should I expect it to be pre lagering? No nasty esters or jet fusels, Just a bit rough, and a touch of diacetyl currently. The already subtle flavours of the beer are being obscured a bit at this point.

I am now torn as to which method to ferment with my next lagers. This beer was a trial beer to make mistakes on, so I can do some Oktoberfest beers for a party later in the year. A festbier, and Dunkel. I am really keen on succeeding at the traditional cold method, but this has left me lacking in confidence! Although I do know where I went wrong. Dropped temps too fast + probably slightly underpitched for this method. 

   

[pete b]

Nick, I think it's likely that this beer will come out fine. I recently made my first lager, in fact it's still layering and not quite ready yet but the difference between where it is now vs where you are now is quite pronounced. If there is just a bit of diacetyl and it tastes a bit rough that's not out of the ordinary it seems.
Btw this thread is an anomaly and the reason some are upset is because it's not the norm.

[RPIScotty]

I would say use whichever method gives you the results you like.

As evidenced by this thread and others, you will get varying opinions, sometimes fierce ones, concerning lagers.

Do what works for you. If it tastes good to you and the method used worked for you then keep doing it.

[wobdee]

In fairness, if this guy Brian has been brewing and on these forums for all these years, I can see how he might have snapped and turned out this way. As cool as this forum is, there is a constant push back against anything new. Or against old ways that are different from the cool new accepted way. It can be a simple as a peice of tape showing volume increase in a starter, or a chunk of pvc with a gas-in connector on it. Or something insanely out there like not using a stir plate. The knee jerk reaction is almost always to tear it down rather than try it. I dont think most people mean anything by it. Its just habbit probably. So I could see some possibly legit reason why someone might say they know a trick but their not going to share it. It does get a little tiresome.

Bingo! I think he just wants to see people break away from the ole boys homebrewing circle jerk once in awhile, do their own research from some real profesional brewing texts and give those things you learn a try. I can see how one can get frustrated after spending too much time on the forums. I know I need a break every now and then.