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Author Topic: First lager!  (Read 14474 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2016, 05:47:42 pm »
Plus I stopped fining my IPA and apa


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Yeah, IPA for sure. Think I'll cut APA back to 1/2 tsp if any at all.
Jon H.

Offline Phil_M

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2016, 06:40:34 pm »
Did you guys ever get around to doing a real experiment on gelatin fining? I've just started using it on some, beers, I'd love to hear more details.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline blair.streit

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First lager!
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2016, 07:03:07 pm »
Did you guys ever get around to doing a real experiment on gelatin fining? I've just started using it on some, beers, I'd love to hear more details.
You saw the Brulosophy about it right? Marshall seems to have adopted it now.

I haven't done my own side by side, but in comparing to my previous batches I'd say basically I can achieve the same clarity and conditioning in a few days versus a few weeks with cold alone.

Beyond that, the improvements you see in some styles that happen over time (i.e. Bock tasting better at 6 months versus 1 month) are still there, but way more subtle in my judgement.

As a quick way to clarify and speed up conditioning I'm a believer. But I would not describe it as a complete replacement for conditioning for me.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2016, 07:03:53 pm »
Did you guys ever get around to doing a real experiment on gelatin fining? I've just started using it on some, beers, I'd love to hear more details.


I haven't. I just know it works if used properly. Get the beer really cold first (32ish), then add gelatin mixture per Bertus method, wait 2 days, pump out the sediment, then go. This method really works:


http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html

Jon H.

Offline Phil_M

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2016, 07:27:53 pm »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2016, 08:15:17 pm »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Yeah I'm less is more on this
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2016, 08:44:02 pm »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Yeah I'm less is more on this

Sorry, missed the point. Looking to use as little as necessary.
Jon H.

Offline blair.streit

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2016, 09:42:11 pm »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Oh sorry, I misunderstood. So is the experiment you're looking for related to quantity of gelatin used and potential impacts on clarity as well as head formation/retention?

Sorry if I'm being daft, just want to make sure I'm grokking all of this.

Offline Phil_M

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2016, 04:41:05 am »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Oh sorry, I misunderstood. So is the experiment you're looking for related to quantity of gelatin used and potential impacts on clarity as well as head formation/retention?

Sorry if I'm being daft, just want to make sure I'm grokking all of this.

Bingo. If others are finding a sweet spot amount for gelatin I'm of course very interested. First (and so far only) time I've used it I used a teaspoon for 5 gallons.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2016, 11:20:33 am »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Oh sorry, I misunderstood. So is the experiment you're looking for related to quantity of gelatin used and potential impacts on clarity as well as head formation/retention?

Sorry if I'm being daft, just want to make sure I'm grokking all of this.

Bingo. If others are finding a sweet spot amount for gelatin I'm of course very interested. First (and so far only) time I've used it I used a teaspoon for 5 gallons.
As I understand it, gelatin fining is more about getting rid of chill haze than clearing yeast.  So, you need to get the beer down to below 40F for the chill haze proteins to come out of solution and let the gelatin grab on.

I've been using 1/2 tsp. in 5.5 gallons in lagers, pils and an English bitters and been getting brilliant clarity and good head and lacing.  I chill the beer to 30-35F for 2-6 days, fine and wait a day or two before packaging, as others have suggested.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 11:28:47 am by Philbrew »
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline blair.streit

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2016, 05:22:21 pm »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Oh sorry, I misunderstood. So is the experiment you're looking for related to quantity of gelatin used and potential impacts on clarity as well as head formation/retention?

Sorry if I'm being daft, just want to make sure I'm grokking all of this.

Bingo. If others are finding a sweet spot amount for gelatin I'm of course very interested. First (and so far only) time I've used it I used a teaspoon for 5 gallons.
As I understand it, gelatin fining is more about getting rid of chill haze than clearing yeast.  So, you need to get the beer down to below 40F for the chill haze proteins to come out of solution and let the gelatin grab on.

I've been using 1/2 tsp. in 5.5 gallons in lagers, pils and an English bitters and been getting brilliant clarity and good head and lacing.  I chill the beer to 30-35F for 2-6 days, fine and wait a day or two before packaging, as others have suggested.
Gelatin mixed with water creates a positively charged solution, which binds with negatively charged yeast and proteins. I haven't seen any data to suggest that it is more effective at one than the other. Have you?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2016, 05:29:40 pm »
Gelatin mixed with water creates a positively charged solution, which binds with negatively charged yeast and proteins. I haven't seen any data to suggest that it is more effective at one than the other. Have you?


It works pretty well for yeast and proteins IME. From the accounts I've read lately it works well @ 1/2 tsp/5 gallons so I'm gonna cut back from 1 tsp.
Jon H.

Offline blair.streit

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2016, 05:36:11 pm »
It works pretty well for yeast and proteins IME. From the accounts I've read lately it works well @ 1/2 tsp/5 gallons so I'm gonna cut back from 1 tsp.
I started out at 1/2 tsp in 5G per the Brulosohpy XBMT. In that article, Marshall cites his friend Brad as the source for the 1/2 tsp. For 5G. I haven't experimented with using more or less, but 1/2 tsp. seems to work fine for me and have really sped up my lagers (since lager yeast sometimes doesn't seem to want to clear even at 32F).

Offline euge

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2016, 01:00:46 pm »
I've found 1/2 tsp works ok in the fermenter. I've yet to try it in the keg.
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: First lager!
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2016, 09:28:09 pm »
I know it works, I was more referencing Ken's foam creating/retention thoughts from a while back.
Oh sorry, I misunderstood. So is the experiment you're looking for related to quantity of gelatin used and potential impacts on clarity as well as head formation/retention?

Sorry if I'm being daft, just want to make sure I'm grokking all of this.

Bingo. If others are finding a sweet spot amount for gelatin I'm of course very interested. First (and so far only) time I've used it I used a teaspoon for 5 gallons.
As I understand it, gelatin fining is more about getting rid of chill haze than clearing yeast.  So, you need to get the beer down to below 40F for the chill haze proteins to come out of solution and let the gelatin grab on.

I've been using 1/2 tsp. in 5.5 gallons in lagers, pils and an English bitters and been getting brilliant clarity and good head and lacing.  I chill the beer to 30-35F for 2-6 days, fine and wait a day or two before packaging, as others have suggested.
Gelatin mixed with water creates a positively charged solution, which binds with negatively charged yeast and proteins. I haven't seen any data to suggest that it is more effective at one than the other. Have you?
I can't relocate the source for the chill haze vs. yeast clearing thing.  But gelatin does clear chill haze proteins (beer below 40F) and while it probably clears much yeast it does not clear all yeast.  If it did, bottle carbonation with priming sugar would not work.

Edit:  Then again, maybe gelatin doesn't clear all the chill haze proteins.  Just enough that the beer appears to be really clear.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 09:35:38 pm by Philbrew »
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.