Author Topic: German Hefe Step Mash  (Read 5475 times)

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
German Hefe Step Mash
« on: April 18, 2016, 03:50:53 PM »
I am going to attempt my first step mash this weekend and wanted to make sure I understand the directions.

Grain bill:

7.4 lbs. (3.4 kg) Weyermann pale wheat malt (2 °L)
1.85 lbs. (0.84 kg) Weyermann Pilsner malt (1.8 °L)
1.85 lbs. (0.84 kg) Weyermann Vienna malt (3.3 °L)
0.53 lbs (0.24 kg) Caramunich® Type III malt (56 °L)

Instructions from the recipe

Dough in at 99 °F (37 °C) with about 2 gallons (~7.5 L) of water. This amounts to a 2:1 liquor to grist ratio. Allow for a 30-minute rest to thoroughly hydrate the grist, then bring the grain bed gradually to the mash-out temperature of 145 °F (63 °C) using a hot-water infusion and direct heat. While ramping up, employ a 20-minute protein and beta-glucan rest at 122 °F (50°C). Give the grain bed a 60-minute rest at 145 °F (63 °C) to allow for thorough starch conversion, then recirculate the first runnings until they are clear and sparge while maintaining a stable grain bed temperature.

How I interpenetrate this

1)  Mash at 99 degrees for 30 minutes with 2 gallons (What kind of rest is this?)
2) 20-minute protein and beta-glucan rest at 122 degrees
3) Sacch’ Rest for 60 minutes at 145 degrees
4) Sparge and proceed as usual

 

Offline beersk

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3484
  • In the night!
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 05:02:27 PM »
I'm not sure of the benefit to a ferulic acid rest, but I'd say you should definitely add an alpha rest at 160-162F for a while, 60 minutes.
I'm not even sure of the benefit to the protein rest for this either.

Planning to use 3068? I love that yeast... I plan to skim and top crop my hefes this year. I started doing that for Belgians and British beers and really like the outcome of doing that. Plus, it's just fun to be able to actually hear the beer fermenting.
die Schönheit der bier...

Jesse

Online blair.streit

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 05:37:18 PM »
I'm not sure of the benefit to a ferulic acid rest....
The ferulic acid rest is supposed to increase 4 (compound name I can't remember) that is purported to increase the clove character in Hefe's.

I've never tried it before, but if you're playing around with step mashes anyway, why not? As long as you have the time it would be interesting. Of course the real test would be to do the same recipe with and without and triangle test with a panel, but I haven't seen any posted results of anyone doing that (though it probably exists somewhere).

Offline JJeffers09

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 07:02:07 PM »
that rest aids in the production of the classic clove flavor of the Hefeweizen as well as yeast choice.  And I would say ferment at 64F-66F 17ish C
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

AHA Member
Indiana Brewers Union (IBU)

Offline zwiller

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 07:02:56 PM »
Gearing up for a hefe right now.  Welcome to hefe madness.  All german brewing things being debatable, I think 99F is basically an acid rest and the more commonly used 113F is the preferred target for ferulic acid.  I think it has been agreed that the rest is not required when using the correct yeast (3068).  No triangle test but I trust Kai's work on this: http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2010/06/04/how-much-effect-does-a-ferulic-acid-rest-have/  I also think the protein rest (122F) is a waste on hefe.  Last hefe I did was 15m each at 113F/145F/158F.

I've tried pretty much everything (steps/decocts/infusion) on hefe's and truthfully no one technique really ever made a huge impact.  Just subtle changes.  I think it is pretty hard to really improve beyond a single infusion with 3068.  That said, I was really happy with last springs hefe (I do dunkleweizen for fall) with distilled with WB06.  Using more dry yeast due to time constraints.  It's no clove/banana bomb but a nice vanilla fruity take on it.  Schneider?  I think I am changing it up for 3068 since Beersk won't shut up about it.  ;D  I'm nervous, it threw some SERIOUS sulfur last few times I used it but always made good hefe with definite clove and banana.   

Now I could go off the deep end and start talking about wheat malt having less precursors to ferulic acid and the rest usually is not being conducted at proper pH but not sure if that does anyone any good... 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline JJeffers09

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 07:15:30 PM »
This is from a previous thread
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=25919.msg334269#msg334269

If you are going Hefeweizen you are missing a decoction.  IMO (*edit - and not only my opinion) you have to have it for your hefe to have the right body.  I am not sure why the 20min step to 160F.

My mash schedule for wheat beers looks like this:
110F 10 mins
133F 30 mins
pull 1/3 for decoction - 10min rest at 150F then boil 15mins meet at the end of the 30 min rest above
152F for 30 mins
Mash Out

Here is a good article on Hefeweizen
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2265-german-hefeweizen-style-profile

Between Gulbransen and Brynildson, you are getting good advice on wheat beers.

      Clip from article
 A common hefeweizen recipe would be 50 to 70% wheat malt, 30 to 50% Pilsner malt, and 0 to 5% light colored dextrin malt. That is all you need to brew a great hefeweizen. While you might consider adding some other malts to develop bready flavors or body, I learned it is much better to focus on your process. Keep in mind brewers craft the world’s best examples from this simple recipe.
     
 Historically, most weizen-type beers would have been decoction mashed and Gulbransen is a staunch proponent of decoction for hefeweizen. “I like decoction because it lends a full, toasty maltiness that seems absent in a single infusion mash,” Gulbransen said. “Since today’s malts are so highly modified, I prefer to start my mash at 130 to 134 °F (54 to 57 °C) to avoid a protein rest. I then pull a single decoction, boiling it for 10 to 15 minutes, before I return it to the mash and raise the entire mash for a rest at 152 °F (67 °C).” I can attest to the quality of Gulbransen’s hefeweizen; his methods do work well.
     
 Matthew Brynildson of Firestone Walker Brewing Company in Paso Robles, California has won many awards. Recently they won an amazing six medals at the 2010 World Beer Cup. They also won their third Champion Brewery award and took a gold medal with their hefeweizen. I asked Brynildson what he felt was key to making a world-class hefeweizen. Brynildson favors a step mash and considers a ferulic acid rest very important to the proper development of fermentation flavors for this style.
     
 “Mashing at 110 °F (43 °C) aids in the hydrolysis of ferulic acid. The yeast use ferulic acid to produce 4-vinyl guaiacol, which is the phenolic (clove-like) flavor compound that is so important in this style,” he said.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 07:20:59 PM by JJeffers09 »
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

AHA Member
Indiana Brewers Union (IBU)

Offline chumley

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 980
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 07:19:57 PM »
I like to do a 30 minute rest at 105°F (beta-glucan), 30 minute rest at 140° (beta amalyse), and 30 minute rest at 155°F (alpha amalyse) for wheat and wheat-rye ales. 

I also am a fan of the WY3333 German wheat yeast. Find it to be better balanced with fruit, cloves and banana than WY3068, which is more just clove and banana.  One could say that at weissbier fermented with WY333 to be almost "juicy".

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 12:30:53 AM »

My mash schedule for wheat beers looks like this:
110F 10 mins
133F 30 mins
pull 1/3 for decoction - 10min rest at 150F then boil 15mins meet at the end of the 30 min rest above
152F for 30 mins
Mash Out


What is your grain to water ratio at each step? 

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 12:37:39 AM »
Would you guys use a Speise for carbonation?  The recipe I am looking at recommends it.  From what I am reading, this is pretty normal for a hefe.

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2016, 02:15:17 AM »
Would you guys use a Speise for carbonation?  The recipe I am looking at recommends it.  From what I am reading, this is pretty normal for a hefe.
Too much effort for minimal return. You're not in Germany, break some rules.

Offline JJeffers09

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2016, 02:35:04 AM »
Starting grain temp 65ish it looks like this

          Qt : lbs
110F - 1.1:1
133F - 1.48:1
152F - 2:1
M/O  - 2.8:1
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

AHA Member
Indiana Brewers Union (IBU)

Offline beersk

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3484
  • In the night!
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 01:04:56 PM »
that rest aids in the production of the classic clove flavor of the Hefeweizen as well as yeast choice.  And I would say ferment at 64F-66F 17ish C
Oh yeah, I'm aware of that, I guess my wording was wrong. I meant to say I'm not sure it actually benefits the final beer.
Quote from: zwiller
I think I am changing it up for 3068 since Beersk won't shut up about it.  ;D  I'm nervous, it threw some SERIOUS sulfur last few times I used it but always made good hefe with definite clove and banana. 
It does throw a lot of sulfur, but always in fermentation. I never get any in the finished beer. I wouldn't brew hefe with any other yeast. Haven't tried the WB06. I tried WLP300 and didn't like it even though it's supposed to be their version of the Weihenstephaner yeast.
die Schönheit der bier...

Jesse

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 01:06:27 PM »
It does throw a lot of sulfur, but always in fermentation. I never get any in the finished beer. I wouldn't brew hefe with any other yeast


Same here. The sulfur always dissipates for me, too.
Jon H.

Offline JJeffers09

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2016, 02:07:42 PM »
I have had a good exp with WLP351 on my last batch of Dunkelweizen.  seems everyone turns to 3056 and it is a good yeast.  But I was very pleased with the Dan McConnell "Classic German-style wheat beer"  The banana that I got off of the beer was amazing.  As well a subtle clove aroma and as the beer warmed up the clove and vanilla flavors became prominent.  It was a great beer.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

AHA Member
Indiana Brewers Union (IBU)

Offline zwiller

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
    • View Profile
Re: German Hefe Step Mash
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2016, 02:48:19 PM »
If speise was some sort of technique (like some think decoction is) that truly takes hefes to another level we would know.  Decoction is not critical if you formulate a decent recipe.  I am very happy with last hefe malt bill.  60wheat/20pils/20munichII.  OP bill looks good (caramunichIII).  That said, by all means, go light on maltier grains and boil the snot out of it if makes you happy.  It works. 

Like all things, most guys have different opinions as to the perfect hefe...  For the record, I have never been to Germany, but have had various fresh draft german hefe.  I need to calibrate my palette and snag one to confirm, but I recall that I prefer Paulaner.  IIRC it was very balanced, spicy, clove, banana, fruit, malt.  No lead player just a nice group effort.  You guys loving the 3068: Get any other fruit or malt?  I read it's clove/banana, that's it and kinda my memory of it.  WB06 is a nice yeast, but it's the fruity hefe type (Erdinger?).  I do get some vanilla and malt, but not as much clove or banana as I would have liked.  As I type this, a blend of the 2 sound freaking incredible...

RE: Sulfur; last hefe with 3068 (low 60's) threw so much "sulfur" it was like we had a septic problem...  It was not subtle...  Wife was PO'd and I was freaking out myself that such a noxious odor emanated from something I intended to drink.  Of course it dissipated but it left an impression on me.  You guys have similar experiences?  Got any hacks? 
Sam
Sandusky, OH