Author Topic: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills  (Read 1038 times)

Offline UnequivocalBrewing

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Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« on: April 18, 2016, 04:59:34 PM »
Hi,

I did two IPAs in a row. 

#1: picture with the lighter color
71.5% 2-row
12.8% white wheat malt
2.6% flaked barley
3.2% C15
3.0% carapils
6.4% table sugar

#2:  picture with the darker color
69.2% 2-row
10.6% white wheat malt
7.2% flaked oats
2.2% C15
1.3% carapils
8.9% table sugar

Water profile and mash PH:  same
Roughly the same hopping schedule
Boils were same and same length

What could possibly be causing this HUGE color difference?  Any guesses?  The only thing noticeable is the flaked oats.  Could that really drive that much of a difference in color?

Offline UnequivocalBrewing

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 05:00:28 PM »
Sorry, for the life of me can't figure out how to attach the images.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 05:03:32 PM »
Jon H.

Offline UnequivocalBrewing

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 05:10:05 PM »




Offline FaradayUncaged

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 11:59:47 AM »
Can't see the pictures, but were the brands of malts the same between the two (in particular the 2-row)?

Offline UnequivocalBrewing

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 03:49:26 PM »
Can't see the pictures, but were the brands of malts the same between the two (in particular the 2-row)?
Yeah, I can't get the pics to work.

Yes, exact same malts. Same bags of malt specifically. Could flaked oats create this difference?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Offline FaradayUncaged

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 04:08:26 PM »
Can't see the pictures, but were the brands of malts the same between the two (in particular the 2-row)?
Yeah, I can't get the pics to work.

Yes, exact same malts. Same bags of malt specifically. Could flaked oats create this difference?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Wish we could see the color difference, but they do have minor SRM contribution difference according to:
http://beersmith.com/Grains/Grains/GrainList.htm

Barley, Flaked   US   Grain   2 SRM   Yes   1.032 SG   20.0 %
Oats, Flaked   US   Grain   1 SRM   Yes   1.037 SG   30.0 %

But based on your amounts I wouldn't expect much difference there, if at all.  Maybe the Crystal bumped it up more.  Did you run these through brewing software?  If so, what was estimated SRM for both?

Offline Stevie

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 04:12:00 PM »
Do both beers have the same clarity?

Offline UnequivocalBrewing

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 02:29:14 PM »
I couldn't get the embedded images to work but I think these hyperlinks work:

https://goo.gl/photos/es6pAM5KmVFXVWhU8
https://goo.gl/photos/v3YUuPspgfkMQ36g7

Offline UnequivocalBrewing

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 02:31:09 PM »
To answer some of the questions:
1.  The clarity is roughly the same.
2.  According to beersmith, the recipe that turned out lighter showed a 5.5 SRM target and the recipe that turned out darker showed a 5.2 SRM target.  Exactly the opposite of what you would expect.

Offline a10t2

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 04:27:41 PM »
Could it be the wrong crystal malt? Or too much crystal? I don't see anything else in the grain bill that could account for that color.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2016, 04:39:25 PM »
Could it be the wrong crystal malt?


Yeah, my LHBS overall is very good, but a couple times over the years I've been given the wrong crystal (before I started buying in bulk). Would make a pretty obvious difference.
Jon H.

Offline UnequivocalBrewing

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2016, 08:53:38 PM »
Same crystal C15 from Great Western as I used on the last.  I buy in bulk so it's from the exact same bag. 

Offline a10t2

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2016, 12:12:16 AM »
In that case my guess is that the "flaked oats" were actually Golden Naked Oats or something along those lines.
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trentm

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Re: Vastly Different Colors on Similar Grain Bills
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2016, 12:56:46 AM »
Were those pictures taken pre-boil, post-boil or after the fermentation?

By looking at the hydrometer level it appears to be pre or post boil.

There are many combinations of possibilities (some of which may or may not apply):

1.) As color is mostly malt driven there's a great probability that your malt measurements (weight or type of malt) did not perfectly matching the malt bill.  Accidently a tiny bit of some roast malt made it's way in the mix?  From a previously batch some stuck in the mill?
2.) Higher pH, perhaps an inaccurate pH measurement or water salt measurement?  Too high a level of some water salt mineral?
3.) Oxygenated too much or too much aeration
4.) Filtering/fining - were both grain beds well established and vorlaufed equally clear?  Whirlfloc/Irish moss in both?
5.) More beta-glucans in the wort contributing to an "oily or sticky" denser wort (did you do a protein-rest for the oats?)
6.) Boiling - was the flame hotter on one than the other (more vigorous boil) - caramelization of sugars, did they sink to the bottom, when were they added?

What is the FG of both worts and their color after fermentation?

At any rate, my questions are only hypothetical and the problem domain is too large to narrow down unless you took detailed notes.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 01:05:37 AM by trentm »