Author Topic: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine  (Read 1585 times)

Offline Slackjawls

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Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« on: April 19, 2016, 04:46:20 PM »
My municipal water is treated with chloramine.  I boil my mash / sparge water for 10 minutes to remove it, then I let the water cool to my strike temp. Since boiling water removes dissolved oxygen, I was wondering if this was bad for the mash chemistry.  Should I oxygenate my water before mashing?  I know I could use campden tablets to remove chloramine but they also add sulfate which I am trying to avoid. Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on this.  Thanks

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2016, 04:57:04 PM »
Just curious why are sulfates a problem? As far as I know using Campden tablets will add negligable amounts. I dont think it would be any more of a problem than what might already be present in your water.

Offline denny

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2016, 05:34:16 PM »
I thought boiling removed chlorine but not chloramine.  Is that incorrect?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2016, 05:49:35 PM »
And campden would add sulfites, not sulfate IIRC. 
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 05:54:43 PM »
I thought boiling removed chlorine but not chloramine.  Is that incorrect?
That's my thought as well, but according to the SF PUC it can be removed with 20 minutes of gentle boiling. I know people that brew all grain with water treated with chloramine. Their beers are ultra phenolic.

Offline denny

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 05:56:56 PM »
And campden would add sulfites, not sulfate IIRC.

And they don't really do that either, AFAIK.
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 06:00:01 PM »
I thought boiling removed chlorine but not chloramine.  Is that incorrect?
Correct. Brungard and AJ have posted on this many times. Basically if your water supplier treats with chloramine (and more and more do), then boiling is not effective.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11392.msg142640#msg142640
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 06:11:36 PM by blair.streit »

Offline Slackjawls

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 06:08:50 PM »
Thanks for all the input.  Sounds like campden tablets are the way to go.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 06:10:51 PM »
I thought boiling removed chlorine but not chloramine.  Is that incorrect?
Correct. Brungard and AJ have posted on this many times. Basically if your water supplier treats with chloramine (and more and more do), then boiling is not effective.

That is my understanding as well.  Need to use Campden or carbon filtration to get the chloramines out, to prevent Band-Aid flavors in the final beer.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2016, 06:52:15 PM »
Yes, Campden tablets (metabisulfite salt) do add sulfate to your water. However considering the typically low dosing of that compound, you are only added a couple ppm sulfate to the water. So it shouldn't be a concern. PS: they also add a couple ppm of chloride too! Read the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to understand the reactions with metabisulfite and daughter products.

AJ and I say that boiling for chloramine removal is ineffective...but only in the fact that it takes a LOT of energy to drive off chloramine. It works, but its not a good use of your time or resources. Chloramine is far less volatile than chlorine gas and it is harder to drive out of the water. Given the ease with which metabisulfite can remove chloramine and the fact that it DOES NOT result in any residual sulfite in your beer, you would be wise to employ that treatment in most cases.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2016, 06:54:57 PM »
Yes, Campden tablets (metabisulfite salt) do add sulfate to your water. However considering the typically low dosing of that compound, you are only added a couple ppm sulfate to the water. So it shouldn't be a concern. PS: they also add a couple ppm of chloride too! Read the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to understand the reactions with metabisulfite and daughter products.

AJ and I say that boiling for chloramine removal is ineffective...but only in the fact that it takes a LOT of energy to drive off chloramine. It works, but its not a good use of your time or resources. Chloramine is far less volatile than chlorine gas and it is harder to drive out of the water. Given the ease with which metabisulfite can remove chloramine and the fact that it DOES NOT result in any residual sulfite in your beer, you would be wise to employ that treatment in most cases.



Good info, Martin.
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Offline zwiller

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 08:16:14 PM »
I thought boiling removed chlorine but not chloramine.  Is that incorrect?
Correct. Brungard and AJ have posted on this many times. Basically if your water supplier treats with chloramine (and more and more do), then boiling is not effective.

That is my understanding as well.  Need to use Campden or carbon filtration to get the chloramines out, to prevent Band-Aid flavors in the final beer.

I don't think Band Aids smell like they used to anymore.  I was helping a guy out with a chlorine issue and he said Band Aids don't have a smell and sure as heck I raided the medicine cabinet and alas, no smell or at least nothing like the days when they came in the metal tins.  (I am 43)  Then he asked how I knew what they TASTED like and it was awkward...   ;D 
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 08:34:06 PM »
I thought boiling removed chlorine but not chloramine.  Is that incorrect?
Correct. Brungard and AJ have posted on this many times. Basically if your water supplier treats with chloramine (and more and more do), then boiling is not effective.

That is my understanding as well.  Need to use Campden or carbon filtration to get the chloramines out, to prevent Band-Aid flavors in the final beer.

I don't think Band Aids smell like they used to anymore.  I was helping a guy out with a chlorine issue and he said Band Aids don't have a smell and sure as heck I raided the medicine cabinet and alas, no smell or at least nothing like the days when they came in the metal tins.  (I am 43)  Then he asked how I knew what they TASTED like and it was awkward...   ;D
I agree. I tried to find a better comparison, but when I poured myself a taster of Chloraseptic they kicked me out of Walgreen's

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2016, 08:35:06 PM »
That is my understanding as well.  Need to use Campden or carbon filtration to get the chloramines out, to prevent Band-Aid flavors in the final beer.

I don't think Band Aids smell like they used to anymore.  I was helping a guy out with a chlorine issue and he said Band Aids don't have a smell and sure as heck I raided the medicine cabinet and alas, no smell or at least nothing like the days when they came in the metal tins.  (I am 43)  Then he asked how I knew what they TASTED like and it was awkward...   ;D

The politically correct term these days is probably "medicine cabinet" or "hospital sanitizer".  After all, "Band-Aid" is a Registered trademark anyway, similar to Kleenex, Xerox, Google, iPhone, Trivago, Hupy & Abraham (does anyone actually use Trivago or Hupy & Abraham?!?), etc.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: Boiling strike water to remove chloramine
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2016, 08:43:36 PM »
Yes, Campden tablets (metabisulfite salt) do add sulfate to your water. However considering the typically low dosing of that compound, you are only added a couple ppm sulfate to the water. So it shouldn't be a concern. PS: they also add a couple ppm of chloride too! Read the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to understand the reactions with metabisulfite and daughter products.

AJ and I say that boiling for chloramine removal is ineffective...but only in the fact that it takes a LOT of energy to drive off chloramine. It works, but its not a good use of your time or resources. Chloramine is far less volatile than chlorine gas and it is harder to drive out of the water. Given the ease with which metabisulfite can remove chloramine and the fact that it DOES NOT result in any residual sulfite in your beer, you would be wise to employ that treatment in most cases.

Thanks for making me smarter...again!
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