Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Vacuum fermentation - any documented history?  (Read 4495 times)

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6858
Vacuum fermentation - any documented history?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 05:15:30 pm »
For me, the concept is just a quick brain fart.  I understand about the problems with yeast functioning properly at higher pressures - especially in stronger brews.  I thought a lower pressure might prevent the alcohol from forcing itself so greatly on the yeast walls and thus penetrating and "stupefying" the yeast.

Wonder if they ever experimented on this stuff in the ISS way up above us.

You may have a solution that's looking for a problem.
I don't see it that way. More of a curiosity and he has the ability to do it. I still say go for it.

Looks like they have tried it on the space station. I remember this from before but didn't think about it until you mentioned it. Micro gravity and a vacuum are two different things.

http://www.space.com/23141-space-beer-student-space-station-experiment.html
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 05:23:08 pm by Stevie »

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7781
  • Underhill VT
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Vacuum fermentation - any documented history?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 06:56:47 am »
For me, the concept is just a quick brain fart.  I understand about the problems with yeast functioning properly at higher pressures - especially in stronger brews.  I thought a lower pressure might prevent the alcohol from forcing itself so greatly on the yeast walls and thus penetrating and "stupefying" the yeast.

Wonder if they ever experimented on this stuff in the ISS way up above us.

as I understand it, osmotic pressure and atmospheric pressure are two different animals.

Osmotic pressure is caused by higher concentrations of various compounds one one side of a permeable membrane, this forces too much/not enough sugar/salt/alcohol to cross the membrane which can hurt the yeast, especially at various points in their life cycle.

Atmospheric pressure can also hurt the yeast but for different, more mechanical reasons, just too much stuff pressing in on them from all directions.

Bigger brewers ferment under some positive pressure because it inhibits certain yeast character expressions, primarily ester formation, so you can ferment warmer without getting ester bombs. warmer fermentation temps lead to faster attenuation.

Brewers also choose open fermentation to reduce the atmospheric pressure on the yeast to encourage yeast expression. This is done by Sierra Nevada for Bigfoot and Anchor Steam across the board. Also many british brewers.

it's an intriguing question and if you have the time and inclination I'd have at it. It would probably be worth your time though to review the literature that already exists in the trade to see what others have done around this already. not to say you shouldn't do it if someone has already tried it but just so you have all the info you can going in.

I would be nervous using glass containers for this experiment myself but that's up to you.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7788
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Vacuum fermentation - any documented history?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2016, 11:00:46 am »
For me, the concept is just a quick brain fart.  I understand about the problems with yeast functioning properly at higher pressures - especially in stronger brews.  I thought a lower pressure might prevent the alcohol from forcing itself so greatly on the yeast walls and thus penetrating and "stupefying" the yeast.

Wonder if they ever experimented on this stuff in the ISS way up above us.

as I understand it, osmotic pressure and atmospheric pressure are two different animals.

Osmotic pressure is caused by higher concentrations of various compounds one one side of a permeable membrane, this forces too much/not enough sugar/salt/alcohol to cross the membrane which can hurt the yeast, especially at various points in their life cycle.

Atmospheric pressure can also hurt the yeast but for different, more mechanical reasons, just too much stuff pressing in on them from all directions.

Bigger brewers ferment under some positive pressure because it inhibits certain yeast character expressions, primarily ester formation, so you can ferment warmer without getting ester bombs. warmer fermentation temps lead to faster attenuation.

Brewers also choose open fermentation to reduce the atmospheric pressure on the yeast to encourage yeast expression. This is done by Sierra Nevada for Bigfoot and Anchor Steam across the board. Also many british brewers.

it's an intriguing question and if you have the time and inclination I'd have at it. It would probably be worth your time though to review the literature that already exists in the trade to see what others have done around this already. not to say you shouldn't do it if someone has already tried it but just so you have all the info you can going in.

I would be nervous using glass containers for this experiment myself but that's up to you.
There is also hydrostatic pressure, which is the type of pressure I hear most commonly referred to as being detrimental to yeast. This is basically the pressure from the column of liquid squeezing down on the yeast as it settles out. It is a function of both gravity and surface area, and is mainly a concern in large cylendro-conical fermenters that most pro brewers use. I don't thing fermenting under a vacuum will address that type of pressure.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer