Author Topic: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!  (Read 1475 times)

Offline brulosopher

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Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« on: May 02, 2016, 12:24:15 PM »
The hop stand has become a popular way for home brewers to impart heaps of hop aroma without adding much in the way of bitterness. At least that’s what many of us think. Curious whether claims that a 20 minute hop stand is equivalent to a 20 minute boil addition, we put it to the test, adding the same amount of the same hops at either point in separate batches. Results are in!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/02/hop-stand-vs-20-minute-boil-addition-exbeeriment-results/

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2016, 12:42:29 PM »
So the 20 min addition and the hop stand were both started at boiling but the hop stand lost 10F-11F and different results were expected?

If I may suggest, next time do the hop stand at a temperature where the hop oils are not supposed to isomerize then keep going lower by 10F.  What temperature is that supposed to be again?

Offline Brutal Eric

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2016, 01:02:59 PM »
I was thinking the same thing. Add hops at end of boil but chill to 165* and hold 20? Might present different results. Interesting that the test's showed considerably less IBU's then expected. Is that from brewing at such a small scale? Or are the calculation methods incorrect? Information overload. lol

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2016, 01:39:22 PM »
So the 20 min addition and the hop stand were both started at boiling but the hop stand lost 10F-11F and different results were expected?

If I may suggest, next time do the hop stand at a temperature where the hop oils are not supposed to isomerize then keep going lower by 10F.  What temperature is that supposed to be again?

We plan to compare a 20 min boil addition to a cool 20 min hop stand at some point, for sure. And we've already compared a cool to warm hop stand:

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/01/the-hop-stand-hot-vs-chilled-wort-exbeeriment-results/

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2016, 04:08:26 PM »
I am still not convinced that the extra time alloted for a hop stand in my brew day is worth the effort.  I get massive aroma and flavor with large dry hop additions. 

Next IPA I make will utilize a whirlpool.  Must see for myself.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016, 04:15:27 PM »

Next IPA I make will utilize a whirlpool.  Must see for myself.


Curious to see what you think. I see it as an apples:oranges thing. I like the flavor better from a hopstand (though there is nice aroma there). But I definitely like the dry hop aroma better. Both techniques used together make a really nice IPA IMO.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 10:03:53 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline charles1968

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2016, 06:05:43 PM »
93-100 much too hot for a hop stand - might as well put them in the boil and cut 20 mins off the brew day. I usually add hops when the temp falls below 80C as the rate of isomerzation is negligible at that point and hop oils aren't vapourized.

Very interesting discovery about clarity. The haze could come from the bittering hops being in the wort for 20 mins extra rather than the average hop stand temp difference of 3.5C, which I doubt would make significant impact.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 06:09:11 PM by charles1968 »

Offline erockrph

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2016, 06:36:20 PM »
93-100 much too hot for a hop stand - might as well put them in the boil and cut 20 mins off the brew day. I usually add hops when the temp falls below 80C as the rate of isomerzation is negligible at that point and hop oils aren't vapourized.

Very interesting discovery about clarity. The haze could come from the bittering hops being in the wort for 20 mins extra rather than the average hop stand temp difference of 3.5C, which I doubt would make significant impact.

I get excellent results with hop stands in that temperature range. Hop oils don't exactly vaporize instantly at those temps. I think the vigorous action of the boil has a lot more to do with driving off the hop volatiles at that point. I've done hot hop stands as long as 90 minutes with truckloads of hop flavor (I actually feel that 60-90 minutes gets me significantly more flavor than 30 minutes). A 90 minute addition of hops isn't going to come close to that.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if hop oils are contributing to the haze.
Eric B.

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016, 06:57:12 PM »
93-100 much too hot for a hop stand - might as well put them in the boil and cut 20 mins off the brew day. I usually add hops when the temp falls below 80C as the rate of isomerzation is negligible at that point and hop oils aren't vapourized.

Very interesting discovery about clarity. The haze could come from the bittering hops being in the wort for 20 mins extra rather than the average hop stand temp difference of 3.5C, which I doubt would make significant impact.

I get excellent results with hop stands in that temperature range. Hop oils don't exactly vaporize instantly at those temps. I think the vigorous action of the boil has a lot more to do with driving off the hop volatiles at that point. I've done hot hop stands as long as 90 minutes with truckloads of hop flavor (I actually feel that 60-90 minutes gets me significantly more flavor than 30 minutes). A 90 minute addition of hops isn't going to come close to that.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if hop oils are contributing to the haze.

From what i see of big breweries, they go into the whirlpool pretty hot, and go for a good amount of time before they go to the heat exchanger. 100 or 200 barrels stay pretty hot though out the whirlpool.

I have done long whirlpool/stands and thought the results were good for flavor. One can also add more hops towards the end of the whirlpool, as I am dropping into the 180F range. As far as time, you get everything cleaned up and put away, and the fermenters and yeast ready before you chill. So it adds a little but not a lot of time.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2016, 07:01:03 PM »
As far as time, you get everything cleaned up and put away, and the fermenters and yeast ready before you chill. So it adds a little but not a lot of time.


+1.  I get everything possible cleaned and put up during the stand, so the time loss isn't big for me either.
Jon H.

Offline blair.streit

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2016, 07:07:08 PM »
From what i see of big breweries, they go into the whirlpool pretty hot, and go for a good amount of time before they go to the heat exchanger. 100 or 200 barrels stay pretty hot though out the whirlpool.
In my mind this is one of those cases where the homebrewer has a potential advantage. Larger scale breweries are unable to quickly chill large volumes of wort, so they have adapted their processes to make use of this time.

Homebrewers have the ability to rapidly chill our wort, but it seems we're still trying to figure out how to achieve similar (or better) hop flavor using different techniques.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2016, 07:17:09 PM »
From what i see of big breweries, they go into the whirlpool pretty hot, and go for a good amount of time before they go to the heat exchanger. 100 or 200 barrels stay pretty hot though out the whirlpool.
In my mind this is one of those cases where the homebrewer has a potential advantage. Larger scale breweries are unable to quickly chill large volumes of wort, so they have adapted their processes to make use of this time.

Homebrewers have the ability to rapidly chill our wort, but it seems we're still trying to figure out how to achieve similar (or better) hop flavor using different techniques.
That's what I have heard. JZ mentioned it recently as well. He feels that homebrewers with immersion chillers have a huge advantage over commercial operations where the whirlpool is need to protect their heat exchangers.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2016, 07:22:34 PM »


Nice job, Ray & Co.
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Offline denny

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2016, 08:22:46 PM »
As far as time, you get everything cleaned up and put away, and the fermenters and yeast ready before you chill. So it adds a little but not a lot of time.


+1.  I get everything possible cleaned and put up during the stand, so the time loss isn't big for me either.

By the time I get to the stand, all I have left to clean up is the kettle....which you obviously can't do until after!
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: Hop Stand vs. Boil Addition | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2016, 10:00:34 PM »
By the time I get to the stand, all I have left to clean up is the kettle....which you obviously can't do until after!
Challenge accepted....