Author Topic: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast  (Read 5536 times)

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2016, 01:48:32 PM »
If I brew another Saison this summer I'm planning on pitching both WY3724 and WL565.
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2016, 02:23:27 PM »
I have never had an issue with WL 565 stalling on me, ever. Instead it seems to ferment out quite normally for a saison strain given proper temp control. On the other hand, I have had stalling in the first generation with WY 3724 every single time I have used it, regardless of the gravity. Time and temp control help to finish out dry eventually (usually around 5-6 wks in primary). With that being said, the second pitch of this strain does seem to work faster (2-3 wks) and finish more appropriately.
I do prefer WY 3724 over WL 565 though.  Just my opinion.

This. 565, after learning about Drew's Saison primer and keeping the airlock off for the first few days (assuming a well aerated wort and healthy pitch), has never stalled on me. In fact, I've fermented it at 66F for 3 weeks steady and got down to 1.002. Using 565 at lower temperatures for a long time gives a really clean but kind of one-dimensional saison flavor, I've found. It's dry as a bone, a bit tart (probably due to mash pH control, I like shooting for 5.2 in the mash), a just straight-ahead phenolic/green pepper bite and that's it. Nice and clean, but not something that's going to wow anyone. Pushing the temperatures up a bit after the first few days is when you get some more complexity from that yeast.

One thing I'll never do again is ferment 565 warm right from the get go. Awful, awful stuff. That or I wasn't patient enough to let it settle down and meld in the bottle over time. I don't have the desire to try again though to find out.  ;)

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2016, 03:56:41 PM »
As I understand it, the Dupont strain actually has 2 strains in its blend. WY 3724 is one and WL 565 is the other (maybe Mark will chime in with some more accurate info on this for us).

I've read resources that suggest there are four strains within Dupont's house culture. Two are more flavor forward while the other two handle more of the workload drying out the beer. That makes sense if the primary flavor yeast tends to stall out because other yeast can step in and complete fermentation.

3724 and 565 are the same yeast--at least they began by isolating the same component of Dupont's culture. White Labs sells 566 which is widely understood to be the other flavor forward strain in Dupont's culture. I don't think Wyeast sells anything else out of Dupont's culture.
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Offline zwiller

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2016, 04:19:49 PM »
Any fan of the style owes it to himself to try 3726/Blaugies.
Sam
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Offline charles1968

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2016, 06:59:05 PM »
I've fermented it at 66F for 3 weeks steady and got down to 1.002. Using 565 at lower temperatures for a long time gives a really clean but kind of one-dimensional saison flavor, I've found. It's dry as a bone, a bit tart (probably due to mash pH control, I like shooting for 5.2 in the mash), a just straight-ahead phenolic/green pepper bite and that's it. Nice and clean, but not something that's going to wow anyone.

Interesting. Sounds very much like Wyeast 3711 if you ferment cold.

I might try and visit this brewery but they only open once a month, so timing might not work out.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2016, 07:09:21 PM »
Any fan of the style owes it to himself to try 3726/Blaugies.


Great strain. Wyeast really needs to sell that year round. I've given my vote to them a few times, as well as on a few other strains.
Jon H.

Offline charles1968

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2016, 03:20:35 PM »
After you package it up please report back with how close you think it may be to a "saison" strain.

The saison turned out well, but it's more like 3711 (WLP590) than 3724. Crisp and zesty but not very funky/fruity.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2016, 05:43:34 PM »
After you package it up please report back with how close you think it may be to a "saison" strain.

The saison turned out well, but it's more like 3711 (WLP590) than 3724. Crisp and zesty but not very funky/fruity.

So a bit cleaner than 3724.  Interesting.  Thanks for the update. Did it still dry out fairly well for you?

Offline charles1968

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2016, 06:53:26 PM »
Yes, it finished at about 1008. Not sure if I can trust my refractometer, so take that with a pinch of salt.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2016, 08:01:22 PM »
Yes, it finished at about 1008. Not sure if I can trust my refractometer, so take that with a pinch of salt.

As long as it is calibrated and you corrected for alcohol then it probably is pretty close.

Offline charles1968

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2016, 08:39:27 PM »
Calibrated but unreliable - cheap Chinese optics. E.g. today I got readings of 13.1, 13.3 and 13.7 from the same wort. I suspect the saison is under 1008 as it tastes bone dry.

Offline narvin

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2016, 10:34:05 PM »
Calibrated but unreliable - cheap Chinese optics. E.g. today I got readings of 13.1, 13.3 and 13.7 from the same wort. I suspect the saison is under 1008 as it tastes bone dry.

There's not a lot of moving parts in a refractometer, even the cheap ones.  Does the line move if you smack it?  If not, it could be related to your sampling technique.
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Offline charles1968

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2016, 11:00:19 PM »
Calibrated but unreliable - cheap Chinese optics. E.g. today I got readings of 13.1, 13.3 and 13.7 from the same wort. I suspect the saison is under 1008 as it tastes bone dry.

There's not a lot of moving parts in a refractometer, even the cheap ones.  Does the line move if you smack it?  If not, it could be related to your sampling technique.

I'll try smacking it. The only other thing I can think that might throw it out is temperature of the prism, which could cool or warm the sample, for instance after rinsing under a cold tap. Sampling technique is using a pipette to place a drop, after flushing out the pipette with wort and washing/drying the refractometer. I don't measure hot wort - I take readings after chilling. It would be great to know the cause of the inconsistency. I think it's a common problem but only apparent if you take multiple readings.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 11:09:42 PM by charles1968 »

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 05:50:16 PM »
Evaporation? I've wondered if that is a factor at times.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline charles1968

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Re: Bottle harvesting Saison Dupont yeast
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2016, 06:01:05 PM »
Evaporation? I've wondered if that is a factor at times.

It certainly could be with hot wort. I normally snap down the cover quickly to try and prevent it.

I tried measuring orange juice on my refractometer after rinsing the prism under cold and hot water. Cold prism ---> 10.3 Brix; hot prism ----> 9 Brix. I never normally rinse with hot, but the swing away from 10 (average for OJ) is large enough to make me think that's part of the problem.

I also wonder if it's possible for suspended solids to affect the reading besides blurring the line, or for stratification to develop in the wort (though I find that very doubtful unless using DME or syrup).