[beersk]

You would get an oxygen scavenging effect if, rather than say Spunding in the keg, you bottled off the fermentor at a calculated gravity and allowed the beer to naturally carbonate in the bottle by reaching terminal gravity. You would have active fermentation at that point.

Priming sugar is an easier solution as you don't need to guesstimate when to rack. I'm wondering if anyone has compared primed, naturally carbonated kegs to force carbed kegs to see if one stales faster than the other.

I believe they have and found that it doesn't do it and the only way, still, is to spund.

[narcout]

I believe they have and found that it doesn't do it and the only way, still, is to spund.

I think some people on the GBF have had success using priming solution or adding some fresh wort at kegging if they miss the transfer window for spunding.

[charles1968]

You would get an oxygen scavenging effect if, rather than say Spunding in the keg, you bottled off the fermentor at a calculated gravity and allowed the beer to naturally carbonate in the bottle by reaching terminal gravity. You would have active fermentation at that point.

Priming sugar is an easier solution as you don't need to guesstimate when to rack. I'm wondering if anyone has compared primed, naturally carbonated kegs to force carbed kegs to see if one stales faster than the other.

I believe they have and found that it doesn't do it and the only way, still, is to spund.

Is spunding the main carbonation method used by German brewers? From quick googling I discovered some brewers force carb but comply with reinheitsgebot by using CO2 collected from fermentation. I wonder if those beers taste any different from traditional methods.

[beersk]

You would get an oxygen scavenging effect if, rather than say Spunding in the keg, you bottled off the fermentor at a calculated gravity and allowed the beer to naturally carbonate in the bottle by reaching terminal gravity. You would have active fermentation at that point.

Priming sugar is an easier solution as you don't need to guesstimate when to rack. I'm wondering if anyone has compared primed, naturally carbonated kegs to force carbed kegs to see if one stales faster than the other.

I believe they have and found that it doesn't do it and the only way, still, is to spund.

Is spunding the main carbonation method used by German brewers? From quick googling I discovered some brewers force carb but comply with reinheitsgebot by using CO2 collected from fermentation. I wonder if those beers taste any different from traditional methods.

Good question. As far as I know, the breweries that are often referenced (Ayinger, Weihenstephaner, Augustiner...) are the ones that are spunding at the end of fermentation. Those are the ones being used as benchmarks.

I believe they have and found that it doesn't do it and the only way, still, is to spund.

I think some people on the GBF have had success using priming solution or adding some fresh wort at kegging if they miss the transfer window for spunding.

Well, that's good news. I'm going to give it a go for sure.

[Village Taphouse]

I would love to hear some responses from those who sample some of their first brewtan beers.  Denny and one other brewer from Brews-Bros (Chils) has reported back after sampling their brewtan beers.  Denny is cautious but seems to think that "something is happening" which is encouraging and Chils response was "This stuff is definitely changing something in the beer. The non-brewtan batch still has some harshness to it." and he was comparing a brewtan batch vs. a non-brewtan batch of the same recipe.  Again, some understanding of what the product does and how it may impact different beers or brewers (oxidation, water composition, etc) would be great.  I hate mysteries.    I would prefer to understand what is happening. 
 

[HoosierBrew]

I would love to hear some responses from those who sample some of their first brewtan beers.  Denny and one other brewer from Brews-Bros (Chils) has reported back after sampling their brewtan beers.  Denny is cautious but seems to think that "something is happening" which is encouraging and Chils response was "This stuff is definitely changing something in the beer. The non-brewtan batch still has some harshness to it." and he was comparing a brewtan batch vs. a non-brewtan batch of the same recipe.  Again, some understanding of what the product does and how it may impact different beers or brewers (oxidation, water composition, etc) would be great.  I hate mysteries.    I would prefer to understand what is happening. 
 

I hope to be some help at some point. I'm gonna keg the O-fest today, but it's not a split batch so my thoughts will be just anecdotal. But I'm gonna do a split batch of APA soon, so that should give more solid results. What I do plan to do on these Brewtan beers is to fill a few bottles of each and leave in the beer fridge for 6 months or so, to judge the impact on shelf life.

[denny]

Although I have yet to do a triangle tasting, my impression of the back to back batches of pils is that the Brewtan batch is much clearer and much better tasting, with a full, rounded, integrated flavor.

[zwiller]

What I do plan to do and leave in the beer fridge for 6 months or so, to judge the impact on shelf life.

Seems like everyone is missing this point entirely... 

[Stevie]

Did you use a copper chiller Denny?

[denny]

Did you use a copper chiller Denny?

Of course.  I changed nothing about my procedure other than the Brewtan.  I poured and stirred mash and sparge water, etc.

[HoosierBrew]

Did you use a copper chiller Denny?

Of course.  I changed nothing about my procedure other than the Brewtan.  I poured and stirred mash and sparge water, etc.

Same thing here, Denny.

[denny]

What I do plan to do and leave in the beer fridge for 6 months or so, to judge the impact on shelf life.

Seems like everyone is missing this point entirely...

I don' think so..at least, I'm not.  For one thing, my kegs will take 2-3 months to kick, so there's a medium term test.  For another, I simply haven't had time yet to brew something to set aside.  That's why I'm not making any grand pronouncements at this point.

[narvin]

What I do plan to do and leave in the beer fridge for 6 months or so, to judge the impact on shelf life.

Seems like everyone is missing this point entirely...

What happened to traditional lagering schedules?  I'm starting to wonder if what "they" are trying to duplicate is not traditional german beer, but the taste of macro produced Bitburger.

[denny]

What happened to traditional lagering schedules?  I'm starting to wonder if what "they" are trying to duplicate is not traditional german beer, but the taste of macro produced Bitburger.

Or maybe those "traditional lagering schedules" aren't what we think they are.

[HoosierBrew]

What I do plan to do and leave in the beer fridge for 6 months or so, to judge the impact on shelf life.

Seems like everyone is missing this point entirely...

I don' think so..at least, I'm not.  For one thing, my kegs will take 2-3 months to kick, so there's a medium term test.  For another, I simply haven't had time yet to brew something to set aside.  That's why I'm not making any grand pronouncements at this point.

FWIW, I was talking about filling a few bottles from the keg of each batch and putting them aside, as opposed to brewing a batch to set aside. Seems easy enough.