[beersk]

I do agree that some beers are still going to need oxidation to taste "right". British styles come readily to mind, mine never taste quite right until they've sat in the keg and oxidized ever so slightly. Takes the edge off all the different flavors and helps them meld together.

I don't know how that can be true. Maybe they taste differently in the UK? I've not been over there, so I can't say for sure, but the beers we get probably aren't super fresh. But I don't know how fresh malt and hops could be a bad thing for any style.

[Phil_M]

Slight oxidation is a hallmark of "Real Ale". While I haven't been to England, I have had cask ale from a few different breweries that are known for getting the British "IT" right. Cask ale will oxidize, it's expose to the air after all. But time that oxidation right, and it smooths out the beer very nicely.

If you're going for an American "Hops and malt to 11" beer, no, that oxidation isn't going to help. But a smooth, lightly carbonated pint? Works great.

Also, I doubt fresh hops would work well in certain Belgian styles...

[Village Taphouse]

I don't want to get precariously off-topic but here's a loosely-related tangent:  I was watching a show where the owner, operator or brewer of the Brain's Brewery in Cardiff, Wales was talking about the beer, kegging, etc.  Since they use some sort of hand-pump to tap the beers, they're using air (right?) so kegs of beer in the UK that are served that way "are perishable.  Much like someone would think of milk"... is what he said.  He went on to say that the kegs only last for about 48 hours which sounds about right.  Interesting.

[brewinhard]

I don't want to get precariously off-topic but here's a loosely-related tangent:  I was watching a show where the owner, operator or brewer of the Brain's Brewery in Cardiff, Wales was talking about the beer, kegging, etc.  Since they use some sort of hand-pump to tap the beers, they're using air (right?) so kegs of beer in the UK that are served that way "are perishable.  Much like someone would think of milk"... is what he said.  He went on to say that the kegs only last for about 48 hours which sounds about right.  Interesting.

For sure, they don't last long.

[Village Taphouse]

I think his words were "the keg will only last for about 48 hours once it's breached" which is wild.  Does that mean that if a crowd comes in and drinks half the keg but then no one else orders that particular beer for another 2 days that they toss it out?  Do they waste a lot of beer in the UK because of this type of serving?  I love my English beers but I still dispense with CO2.  I know some guys who use PINS but I have never looked at that.

[tommymorris]

The thing I look forward to most when I try Brewtan (and low oxygen brewing) is the keg lasting longer.  Right now my kegs last 3-4 weeks before running out beer. That is not nearly long enough.

[hopfenundmalz]

I don't want to get precariously off-topic but here's a loosely-related tangent:  I was watching a show where the owner, operator or brewer of the Brain's Brewery in Cardiff, Wales was talking about the beer, kegging, etc.  Since they use some sort of hand-pump to tap the beers, they're using air (right?) so kegs of beer in the UK that are served that way "are perishable.  Much like someone would think of milk"... is what he said.  He went on to say that the kegs only last for about 48 hours which sounds about right.  Interesting.

That is why you want to find a pub with decent turn over. Some cask beers are best at day two to three, then fall off quickly.

[Stevie]

I don't want to get precariously off-topic but here's a loosely-related tangent:  I was watching a show where the owner, operator or brewer of the Brain's Brewery in Cardiff, Wales was talking about the beer, kegging, etc.  Since they use some sort of hand-pump to tap the beers, they're using air (right?) so kegs of beer in the UK that are served that way "are perishable.  Much like someone would think of milk"... is what he said.  He went on to say that the kegs only last for about 48 hours which sounds about right.  Interesting.

That is why you want to find a pub with decent turn over. Some cask beers are best at day two to three, then fall off quickly.

Yep, it is important to find a popular pub with a solid publican.

[Phil_M]

I think his words were "the keg will only last for about 48 hours once it's breached" which is wild.  Does that mean that if a crowd comes in and drinks half the keg but then no one else orders that particular beer for another 2 days that they toss it out?  Do they waste a lot of beer in the UK because of this type of serving?  I love my English beers but I still dispense with CO2.  I know some guys who use PINS but I have never looked at that.

I'm trying to go that route. Bought a pin, hop to tap one or two days before serving. Goal is to use holiday events that can kill off a pin that quickly.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27813.0

[beersk]

I don't want to get precariously off-topic but here's a loosely-related tangent:  I was watching a show where the owner, operator or brewer of the Brain's Brewery in Cardiff, Wales was talking about the beer, kegging, etc.  Since they use some sort of hand-pump to tap the beers, they're using air (right?) so kegs of beer in the UK that are served that way "are perishable.  Much like someone would think of milk"... is what he said.  He went on to say that the kegs only last for about 48 hours which sounds about right.  Interesting.

They might also use something called an aspirator that supplies the cask with an atmospheric pressure of co2 as to not carbonate the beer but keep it from being exposed to o2. And still I disagree that slight oxidation is what makes real ale, I think the fact that it's lower carbonated and FRESH makes it "real ale".

But anyway, we should get this back on topic here...

[The Beerery]

I am not going to join in on the discussion of "real ale" or British beers because, they are far from my cup o tea () .

But I can chime in on oxidation effects on beer cold side. Simply a poor transfer from the fermenter is enough o2 pickup to make flavors dramatically change within 24hrs. So I have zero doubt these beers if really oxidized will show signs and turn rather quickly, though it behooves me to understand why one would purposely do it!

[Village Taphouse]

I didn't mean to veer off-course.  The brewtan thread is the one that I have been most interested in lately so I don't want to turn it into a trainwreck.  Outside of the German styles I make and the American styles, I also like my English ESBs and EPAs.  I don't do stouts, porters, giant IPAs or Belgians so there is a decent-sized slice of the beer wheel where I don't go.  I just smacked a pack of 1728 to make some Scottish ales and I'm going to use it for some bitter and pale ales too.  We can return to our regularly-scheduled programming...

[zwiller]

I don't really think we went off course talking about Brewtan and real ales.  I think there is a chance Brewtan could actually keep a real ale "in the zone" longer but then again it could actually prevent the magical oxidation but I really doubt that.  I think it should actually slow it down and that could be a good thing.  I'd imagine the Aussie's already know more about this... 

[brewinhard]

I don't really think we went off course talking about Brewtan and real ales.  I think there is a chance Brewtan could actually keep a real ale "in the zone" longer but then again it could actually prevent the magical oxidation but I really doubt that.  I think it should actually slow it down and that could be a good thing.  I'd imagine the Aussie's already know more about this...

Possibly, but I would bet exposing a beer to any oxygen ingress, brewtan or not, would not help a beer to "last" longer in terms of freshness. I have been closed-transferring my beers from primary directly into the keg for a few years now, and that has been one of the single best things I have done to help improve beer flavor, aroma, and stability.
This low DO brewing has also got me interested. Really gotta wrap my head around the process and see where I can improve my system. Love all the sharing going on here lately, from everyone...

Thanks and cheers to you all!

[hopfenundmalz]

I don't really think we went off course talking about Brewtan and real ales.  I think there is a chance Brewtan could actually keep a real ale "in the zone" longer but then again it could actually prevent the magical oxidation but I really doubt that.  I think it should actually slow it down and that could be a good thing.  I'd imagine the Aussie's already know more about this...

Possibly, but I would bet exposing a beer to any oxygen ingress, brewtan or not, would not help a beer to "last" longer in terms of freshness. I have been closed-transferring my beers from primary directly into the keg for a few years now, and that has been one of the single best things I have done to help improve beer flavor, aroma, and stability.
This low DO brewing has also got me interested. Really gotta wrap my head around the process and see where I can improve my system. Love all the sharing going on here lately, from everyone...

Thanks and cheers to you all!

I even bought some new equipment yesterday, a little more to purchase before I think I can do it properly.

I have made English beers that were too clean in the past, when I did too much like fermenting a lager on the cold side. The British breweries I have toured were not all that modern.