[HoosierBrew]

There is a HUGE difference in my beers made with brewtan.  The hoppier beers really allow the hops to shine and the malt character is so smooth, clean and clear.  The maltier beers like the helles are just fine but I need to brew those again and bump up the sulfate because these are malt bombs. 

Great info, thanks. As for the hoppy beers, I wonder if the supposed antioxidant nature of Brewtan B helps protect the hop character from oxidation to a greater degree. I'm glad I picked an O-fest and a hoppy German pils to use Brewtan on first, so I can eval a malty then a hoppy beer.

[Village Taphouse]

There is a HUGE difference in my beers made with brewtan.  The hoppier beers really allow the hops to shine and the malt character is so smooth, clean and clear.  The maltier beers like the helles are just fine but I need to brew those again and bump up the sulfate because these are malt bombs. 

Great info, thanks. As for the hoppy beers, I wonder if the supposed antioxidant nature of Brewtan B helps protect the hop character from oxidation to a greater degree. I'm glad I picked an O-fest and a hoppy German pils to use Brewtan on first, so I can eval a malty then a hoppy beer.

That's exactly what I was curious about too... what would a helles be like but also what would a hoppy Amarillo-Citra pale ale be like?  I am drinking a pilsner I made with S-189 (I'm not into dry yeast but a number of people suggested it) and some Magnum to bitter and then late Spalt and Hallertau Mittelfruh to about 35 IBUs.  The first glass was cloudy and I'm now on glass #3 and it's really clear.  Not sure if that's the yeast, the brewtan or the fact that I gelled it cold before I carbed it.  This one would not need more sulfate.  The late hops balance everything pretty nicely.  But I still would really like to know what's happening with brewtan.  What is it doing?  How does it impact one brewer differently than another?  I admit that I paid no attention to oxidation until after my beers were fermented.  I splashed my way through my brewday... pouring, stirring, recircing, running off, racking, etc. and I think brewtan must be doing something on that front.  But I would still like to know what [specifically] it's doing to impact my beers so profoundly.

[beersk]

It's a lingering malt freshness, Denny. Most German/Czech beers have it as well as some Belgian beers (in my opinion). It's a fresher tasting quality to the malt character. We've been over this!

This is interesting because I think Belgian beers also have an IT that it not just due to yeast; however, they routinely have grants, oxidizing mash filters (ancient 100 year old steel plates with cloth in between), and copper everywhere.  And if anything, the modern Belgian breweries that I visited (Bavik, Bush/Trolls) had less of IT. 

So, either a) German IT and Belgian IT are different (and they very well could be)
or b) It's not due to oxidation.

All good points, Chris. And I really don't know...whatever it is, I like it and haven't found it in my beers or any American brewed beers. So either they're doing something different or it's the travel time from there to here causing that flavor to happen.
I'm in a weird position on this whole thing though. I feel like I'm kind of on the fence between IT and fvck IT.

Really glad that Ken posted his experience with Brewtan B. I'm wanting to get my hands on some now to try it...not wanting to wait for it to come from Australia though.
Thanks for posting your experience, Ken!

[wobdee]

I apologize but I didn't have the chance to read through this whole thread.  I got information about brewtan from Denny awhile back and ordered it from iBrew in Australia.  Since I got it, I have made SEVEN batches of beer with it (helles, two pale ales, pilsner, dark lager, blonde ale and an "American Lager").  I have tasted three of the those.  My experience so far is that it has softened my beers and smoothed them out noticeably.  The word "soft" is not descriptive enough.  My pre-brewtan beers seemed to have a bit of harsh sharpness to them and I was constantly trying to use distilled water to dilute, use only calcium chloride instead of gypsum, etc.  These brewtan beers are so soft that I could now see using more sulfate which is new territory for me.  Can anyone tell me what brewtan is doing?  Is it cutting down on oxidation?  Is it bonding with metals in my water to prevent them from contributing flavor to the beer?  There is a HUGE difference in my beers made with brewtan.  The hoppier beers really allow the hops to shine and the malt character is so smooth, clean and clear.  The maltier beers like the helles are just fine but I need to brew those again and bump up the sulfate because these are malt bombs.

Any lack of head or head retention? I'm a couple weeks out before sampling my first Brewtan beer but I've read a couple reviews of Brewtan reducing head.

[denny]

Any lack of head or head retention? I'm a couple weeks out before sampling my first Brewtan beer but I've read a couple reviews of Brewtan reducing head.

I haven't noticed that on any of the Brewtan beers I've made.  Is there a reason Brewtan would be suspected of reducing foam?

[HoosierBrew]

I haven't noticed that on any of the Brewtan beers I've made. 

Good to hear. I wouldn't have thought so.

[narcout]

I haven't noticed that on any of the Brewtan beers I've made.  Is there a reason Brewtan would be suspected of reducing foam?

According to the literature, it is effective at dropping out certain proteins.  Though the spec sheet claims that it does not impact foam positive ones.

[HoosierBrew]

I haven't noticed that on any of the Brewtan beers I've made.  Is there a reason Brewtan would be suspected of reducing foam?

According to the literature, it is effective at dropping out certain proteins.  Though the spec sheet claims that it does not impact foam positive ones.

Yep. I'd be curious to see if he used the dosage Denny quoted, or a higher one.

[zwiller]

Any lack of head or head retention? I'm a couple weeks out before sampling my first Brewtan beer but I've read a couple reviews of Brewtan reducing head.

Is there a reason Brewtan would be suspected of reducing foam?

(narcout beat me to it) If your beers do not have issues with excess proteins and you are adding a form of tannic acid which removes protein you could be be removing proteins which contribute to head formation or maybe these guys used too much?  (hoosier) You guys are fast! 

I still tend to think IT is simply brewing with extremely fresh malt...

[beersk]

Any lack of head or head retention? I'm a couple weeks out before sampling my first Brewtan beer but I've read a couple reviews of Brewtan reducing head.

Is there a reason Brewtan would be suspected of reducing foam?

(narcout beat me to it) If your beers do not have issues with excess proteins and you are adding a form of tannic acid which removes protein you could be be removing proteins which contribute to head formation or maybe these guys used too much?  (hoosier) You guys are fast! 

I still tend to think IT is simply brewing with extremely fresh malt...

Might be part of it, but it's a matter of keeping the precious malt flavors in the mash and wort and not letting them escape via mashing in with vigorous stirring, boiling too hard, etc. But hey, I'm still the guy in the middle of all this, seeing both sides equally clear. Rather difficult position to be in as it's created a sort of internal struggle as to how to move my brewing forward.

[denny]

Might be part of it, but it's a matter of keeping the precious malt flavors in the mash and wort and not letting them escape via mashing in with vigorous stirring, boiling too hard, etc. But hey, I'm still the guy in the middle of all this, seeing both sides equally clear. Rather difficult position to be in as it's created a sort of internal struggle as to how to move my brewing forward.

Assuming that happens....I'm not convinced.

[HoosierBrew]

Might be part of it, but it's a matter of keeping the precious malt flavors in the mash and wort and not letting them escape via mashing in with vigorous stirring, boiling too hard, etc. But hey, I'm still the guy in the middle of all this, seeing both sides equally clear. Rather difficult position to be in as it's created a sort of internal struggle as to how to move my brewing forward.

Assuming that happens....I'm not convinced.

Denny, based on Ken's and your impressions that the malt character in these beers seems more pronounced and better, it does seem like Brewtan is preventing some oxidizing of malt compounds. But maybe it's more a function of Brewtan dropping out the proteins so effectively and 'cleaning' up the flavors.

[hopfenundmalz]

Fresh malt? Augustiner has their own Malting's, that is fresh! Good luck getting some of that malt.

[denny]

Denny, based on Ken's and your impressions that the malt character in these beers seems more pronounced and better, it does seem like Brewtan is preventing some oxidizing of malt compounds. But maybe it's more a function of Brewtan dropping out the proteins so effectively and 'cleaning' up the flavors.

Yeah, that's possible.  But I'm not jumping to any conclusions until I do more side by side testing and talk to Joe.

[zwiller]

Might be part of it, but it's a matter of keeping the precious malt flavors in the mash and wort and not letting them escape via mashing in with vigorous stirring, boiling too hard, etc. But hey, I'm still the guy in the middle of all this, seeing both sides equally clear. Rather difficult position to be in as it's created a sort of internal struggle as to how to move my brewing forward.

I am in the middle too and anxiously awaiting the KISSLODO method  .  I tend to look at it this way: Fresh malt has an abundance of IT so you can get way with abusing it.  This would also explain how some obvious non LODO breweries are achieving IT.  That's my hunch at least.  Fortunately, I am mainly a hop head and polyclar is rocking for me.