Author Topic: Brewtan B  (Read 107683 times)

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3272
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #285 on: September 01, 2016, 05:25:43 pm »
I used to use secondaries but I cut that part out.  I now to open transfers (I know, I know) from primary directly to a purged keg.  My hope is that the brewtan additions on brewday are protecting me from oxidation all along the way and anything else I can do (purge the keg prior to transfer) is a little additional insurance.  I do have a spunding valve but have not used it yet on a not-yet-fully-fermented beer.


FWIW, I've been adding ascorbic acid at kegging lately, in hopes of warding off final stage oxidation. In theory, if the Brewtan helps at the mash and boil stages and this helps at kegging, then I should at least be making a leap in O2 control in a simple way.

How much are you adding at kegging?  Is it in liquid form?  I am assuming it does not affect the overall flavor of the finished beer?

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #286 on: September 01, 2016, 05:34:40 pm »
I used to use secondaries but I cut that part out.  I now to open transfers (I know, I know) from primary directly to a purged keg.  My hope is that the brewtan additions on brewday are protecting me from oxidation all along the way and anything else I can do (purge the keg prior to transfer) is a little additional insurance.  I do have a spunding valve but have not used it yet on a not-yet-fully-fermented beer.


FWIW, I've been adding ascorbic acid at kegging lately, in hopes of warding off final stage oxidation. In theory, if the Brewtan helps at the mash and boil stages and this helps at kegging, then I should at least be making a leap in O2 control in a simple way.

How much are you adding at kegging?  Is it in liquid form?  I am assuming it does not affect the overall flavor of the finished beer?


I use the LD Carlson stuff from the LHBS, powdered form. It says 1 tsp/5 gallons. No don't notice it, not even in the recent kolsch.
Jon H.

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1760
  • Southern Maryland
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #287 on: September 01, 2016, 06:47:43 pm »
As does transferring to the keg a few points before final gravity is reached. That's been a huge improvement in my process, I feel.

I just got my pin, plan on doing this when I use it. Might start trying it with kegs too, depending on how well it works.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline el_capitan

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #288 on: September 08, 2016, 07:18:18 pm »
Well I've been away from the forums for a while, and I'll admit that I only read through page 8 before posting BUT...

I have to say that on one hand, this certainly seems intriguing.

On the other hand, is this a solution looking for a problem?  So many people are hailing this as THE solution for an oxidation problem in beer.  But on a homebrew scale, how many people really see a problem with oxidation?  I've never had too much of a problem with drinking my way through a batch before it develops aging issues. 

I appreciate that AHA members try to be on the cutting edge of brewing developments, but to me this seems kind of like a bandwagon issue.  Maybe I'm just too old-school?  What happened to pragmatism?  I shared this info with a friend who is starting a commercial brewery, so I see the value in the information.  Also, I'd be willing to give this product a try because the science seems solid.  But if I never do try Brewtan-B, I think I'll still enjoy the hell out of my homebrew at the end of a hard day's work. 

Cheers.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25488
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #289 on: September 09, 2016, 09:53:57 am »
Well I've been away from the forums for a while, and I'll admit that I only read through page 8 before posting BUT...

I have to say that on one hand, this certainly seems intriguing.

On the other hand, is this a solution looking for a problem?  So many people are hailing this as THE solution for an oxidation problem in beer.  But on a homebrew scale, how many people really see a problem with oxidation?  I've never had too much of a problem with drinking my way through a batch before it develops aging issues. 

I appreciate that AHA members try to be on the cutting edge of brewing developments, but to me this seems kind of like a bandwagon issue.  Maybe I'm just too old-school?  What happened to pragmatism?  I shared this info with a friend who is starting a commercial brewery, so I see the value in the information.  Also, I'd be willing to give this product a try because the science seems solid.  But if I never do try Brewtan-B, I think I'll still enjoy the hell out of my homebrew at the end of a hard day's work. 

Cheers.

I think it's likely that most homebrewers suffer oxidation issues, whether they realize it or not.  Some may be minor, but even those can affect beer quality.  I've always been happy with the quality of my beers, but they seem to be noticeably better with Brewtan B.  Does that mean the ones without it suck?  Not IMO.  But if they can be improved with something as simple as this, I'm gonna do it.  FTR, I still need to do more side by side testing.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #290 on: September 09, 2016, 09:58:16 am »
I think it's likely that most homebrewers suffer oxidation issues, whether they realize it or not.  Some may be minor, but even those can affect beer quality.  I've always been happy with the quality of my beers, but they seem to be noticeably better with Brewtan B.  Does that mean the ones without it suck?  Not IMO.  But if they can be improved with something as simple as this, I'm gonna do it.  FTR, I still need to do more side by side testing.



Exactly how I feel,Denny.
Jon H.

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #291 on: September 09, 2016, 11:45:00 am »
Which you know is pretty ironic, given ya'lls stances about oxidation 6 months ago. I'll take that as my "Thank You" for pointing oxidation out to you.  ;)

However in the true spirit of giving I will offer you a tip. Brewtan is not going to take you where you want to be, post fermentation ehh maybe... I have no doubts it will help you, it will help anyone but not exactly how you think it will. Let me explain.

Brewtan is going to help you chelate heavy metals to help stop fenton processes, that could have already been said in the pages of this thread, I didn't check. Where are these metals coming from though?.. Well you can get them from your tap water(RO and DI will be basically zero, wink wink ), improper passivation of stainless, copper chillers and post fermentation from improper passivation of kegs. But here is the catch, they can only super oxidize in the presence of low oxygen. Just think about that, and let it sink in.

Since you guys are not imploring low oxygen brewhouses, don't follow the proper low oxygen post fermentation procedures, you will only have a zero o2 environment briefly in the fermenter(until you rack it at FG). This is not a "knock" its the truth. For those who follow all of the above I.E macro brewers, the brewtan is a savior, because the whole process is low oxygen therefore the fenton reactions can ACTUALLY happen. What about that keg that didn't get properly passivated after being cleaned, how about that can..You can see the potential issues here..

The brewtan is going to only show you minor gains, when you guys are using it as you are. Now if one say, de-oxygenated brewing water dosed that with some SMB, mashed under a cap, lautered under a cap (to minimize o2 exposure of course we don't have the square cube law on our side) boiled softly, fermented, then spunded with some extract left into a keg, that was purged by pushing a full keg of sani out. Then you just MAY net a finished beer with under .15 DO, where brewtan would very well be another safeguard to keep the DO levels low. but there are other safeguards as well (I have yet to see them mentioned on here so I am guess they are still undiscovered) SO, what I am getting at is that you are not maximizing your results.

I do find it interesting though, and this may be a little tongue in cheek but you mention the flavor of your beer improving with brewtan, but imagine how much better they would be if you where avoiding oxygen in the first place and not trying to play "catch up". I am far from trying to covert anyone here, I know how that works and been here done that. Just some food for thought, thats all. Its been quite interesting watching this brewtan revolution from afar.

Prosit!


« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 12:53:36 pm by The Beerery »

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6858
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #292 on: September 09, 2016, 12:02:46 pm »
I'll try low oxygen brewing someday, but I cannot with my current setup. Maybe when I have a dedicated brew in place area with a three vessel system.

I'll try Brewtan someday. Maybe when I can get it without ordering from Australia.

Offline blatz

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3511
  • Paul Blatz - Jupiter, FL
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #293 on: September 09, 2016, 01:01:54 pm »
this is all very interesting.  however, I don't know that I would ever be able to brew in a 'low 02' system. 

frustrating.  >:(

The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281

Offline beersk

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3719
  • In the night!
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #294 on: September 09, 2016, 03:24:52 pm »
this is all very interesting.  however, I don't know that I would ever be able to brew in a 'low 02' system. 

frustrating.  >:(


I wonder this too, myself. I just got a stainless chiller in hopes that it'll be "the final piece" but I'm thinking it's only "another piece" instead. I'm thinking it can only improve the beer further. Even if I can get a little of "it" I'll be pretty content. But we can always improve.
Jesse

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6858
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #295 on: September 09, 2016, 03:32:57 pm »
I'm waiting for all the stainless chiller switchers to complain about sulphur notes only to make the switch back to copper, or at at least tossing a pipe fitting into the kettle.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #296 on: September 09, 2016, 03:48:48 pm »
I'm waiting for all the stainless chiller switchers to complain about sulphur notes only to make the switch back to copper, or at at least tossing a pipe fitting into the kettle.


Yep. homoeccentricus bought one and complained of sulfur immediately. Gonna stick with what I'm doing for now. My 'slight improvement' seems to taste pretty good to me about now.
Jon H.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25488
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #297 on: September 09, 2016, 04:07:31 pm »
I'm waiting for all the stainless chiller switchers to complain about sulphur notes only to make the switch back to copper, or at at least tossing a pipe fitting into the kettle.

Not to mention the number of German breweries using copper
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline narvin

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #298 on: September 09, 2016, 04:27:49 pm »
I'm waiting for all the stainless chiller switchers to complain about sulphur notes only to make the switch back to copper, or at at least tossing a pipe fitting into the kettle.

Not to mention the number of German breweries using copper

Absolutely.  This is the least of my concern.  I'm testing some of these low DO methods, and removing copper is not one of them.  Results are still pending.  :)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25488
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #299 on: September 10, 2016, 10:08:29 am »
FWIW, we have an interview with Joe Formanek scheduled for the podcast.  Should hit the air around mid Oct.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell