[brewinhard]

One question I have about LODO and even Brewtan is what about all the gold medals from days gone by? Would those beers loose in a contemporary competition because LODO and/or Brewtan have raised the bar so dramatically?

I can't imagine that 100% or even 75% of the NHC medal winners perform LODO brewing and they are making amazing beers (albeit some of the best in the country, at least that get entered anyway). I bet numbers would be more in the range of under 30% at best.

[denny]

And, Denny, you being into the experimental brewing thing, this should be right up your alley, dude. Try it and see for yourself. That's basically your motto.

Anyway, I feel like this is a frivolous battle. Brew the way you want to brew that gets you the results you want. End of argument.

I'm also the pragmatic guy....I have to have a reason to expect results, and the process itself has to be reasonable enough so that there's a payback for the effort I put into it.  I don't see that here...yet.  That's why I want to see something other than "the mash smells better" from the people who advocate it.  And yes, I know that there's more to it than the way the mash smells, but at this point I don't see anyting that makes me excited to try it.

And ultimately I agree with you last 3 sentences.

[natebriscoe]

And, Denny, you being into the experimental brewing thing, this should be right up your alley, dude. Try it and see for yourself. That's basically your motto.

Anyway, I feel like this is a frivolous battle. Brew the way you want to brew that gets you the results you want. End of argument.

I'm also the pragmatic guy....I have to have a reason to expect results, and the process itself has to be reasonable enough so that there's a payback for the effort I put into it.  I don't see that here...yet.  That's why I want to see something other than "the mash smells better" from the people who advocate it.  And yes, I know that there's more to it than the way the mash smells, but at this point I don't see anyting that makes me excited to try it.

And ultimately I agree with you last 3 sentences.

Does this mean you will stop knocking something you haven't tried? Nobody is asking you to endorse it either.

[denny]

Does this mean you will stop knocking something you haven't tried? Nobody is asking you to endorse it either.

I don't think I've ever "knocked" it, if I understand your meaning.  I have expressed great skepticism and asked for proof.  I will likely continue that until I see proof that inspires me to try it.  And even then, how will I know I've achieved anything since as far as I know there is no definition if "IT".

[Stevie]

How are those that spund dealing with the schedule? Are you checking daily and then racking as soon as it hits your racking target?

My schedule isn't flexible enough for daily testing and I am sure those with family commitments are doubly hosed in that regard.

[Phil_M]

I haven't tried it yet.

My plan is to use it for the first time when brewing my cask-conditioned Thanksgiving beer. Sometime in the next few weeks I'll brew the recipe and keg as normal. Should give me some good data points, which I'll then use when I rebrew. Hopefully that data enables me to schedule the rebrew such that I have plenty of time to rack/prime/fine the beer when the gravity is ideal.

[HoosierBrew]

My schedule isn't flexible enough for daily testing and I am sure those with family commitments are doubly hosed in that regard.

Yeah, exactly. It's been tough enough for a while (with the kids' activities) to find time to brew as often as I'd like. So for now, using Brewtan and kegging with ascorbic is as close as I'm getting. Regardless, we do seem to be at diminishing returns with arguing about lodo. But I do appreciate people posting their lodo practices and how they feel the final beer is impacted, as points of data. We're all pretty much scratching the surface on this stuff, so we need to remember to be civil.

[Stevie]

I still want a spunding valve. Would be crazy helpful for over carbed beers

[denny]

I still want a spunding valve. Would be crazy helpful for over carbed beers

Plans in Experimental Homebrewing

[Stevie]

I still want a spunding valve. Would be crazy helpful for over carbed beers

Plans in Experimental Homebrewing

The parts are a bit too high on Amazon right now. Monitoring the prices and will order when they bottom out again.

[beersk]

Does this mean you will stop knocking something you haven't tried? Nobody is asking you to endorse it either.

I don't think I've ever "knocked" it, if I understand your meaning.  I have expressed great skepticism and asked for proof.  I will likely continue that until I see proof that inspires me to try it.  And even then, how will I know I've achieved anything since as far as I know there is no definition if "IT".

I think that if you don't understand what IT is at this point, then you never will. Fresh lingering grain, like sticking your face in a fresh sack of grain and chewing on a couple of the kernels; standing in a wheat or barley field in the summer with a light breeze blowing in your face...
Besides that, you seem so reluctant to "know" what "IT" is. It's just a pure, rich malt flavor; flavor that malt was intended to impart. Ever had a fresh Bitburger or Ayinger? IT is there and in your face. If you can't taste that, then you never will. Might be like some people get soap from cilantro and other don't.
Not trying to be a jerk, just that you've mentioned multiple times now over the course of this whole thing about there not being a definition. Throw that mentality out the window and drink the beer! You will know.

[denny]

I think that if you don't understand what IT is at this point, then you never will. Fresh lingering grain, like sticking your face in a fresh sack of grain and chewing on a couple of the kernels; standing in a wheat or barley field in the summer with a light breeze blowing in your face...
Besides that, you seem so reluctant to "know" what "IT" is. It's just a pure, rich malt flavor; flavor that malt was intended to impart. Ever had a fresh Bitburger or Ayinger? IT is there and in your face. If you can't taste that, then you never will. Might be like some people get soap from cilantro and other don't.
Not trying to be a jerk, just that you've mentioned multiple times now over the course of this whole thing about there not being a definition. Throw that mentality out the window and drink the beer! You will know.

If that's what "IT" is, then I already have "IT" more often than not.

[beersk]

I think that if you don't understand what IT is at this point, then you never will. Fresh lingering grain, like sticking your face in a fresh sack of grain and chewing on a couple of the kernels; standing in a wheat or barley field in the summer with a light breeze blowing in your face...
Besides that, you seem so reluctant to "know" what "IT" is. It's just a pure, rich malt flavor; flavor that malt was intended to impart. Ever had a fresh Bitburger or Ayinger? IT is there and in your face. If you can't taste that, then you never will. Might be like some people get soap from cilantro and other don't.
Not trying to be a jerk, just that you've mentioned multiple times now over the course of this whole thing about there not being a definition. Throw that mentality out the window and drink the beer! You will know.

If that's what "IT" is, then I already have "IT" more often than not.

Well good for you. Why are you participating in this conversation then? You should be brewing beer professionally that tastes legions better than any American craft beer. Because this fresh lingering grain flavor/aroma is not present in any American craft beer that I've had.
But we've already been over this. Not going through it all again.

[denny]

Well good for you. Why are you participating in this conversation then? You should be brewing beer professionally that tastes legions better than any American craft beer. Because this fresh lingering grain flavor/aroma is not present in any American craft beer that I've had.
But we've already been over this. Not going through it all again.

I have no desire to brew commercially.  Never have.

[beersk]

Well good for you. Why are you participating in this conversation then? You should be brewing beer professionally that tastes legions better than any American craft beer. Because this fresh lingering grain flavor/aroma is not present in any American craft beer that I've had.
But we've already been over this. Not going through it all again.

I have no desire to brew commercially.  Never have.

Well, I don't blame you there. Just saying, that if you really think you have IT in your beers, you'd be number one in the country. No American craft beer has it that I've tasted. Anyway...