Author Topic: Brewtan B  (Read 105652 times)

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #480 on: September 30, 2016, 12:19:53 pm »
Sorry man, but nobody here is going to believe that you know what "it" is or that your friend can make "it" without research papers, backup data and triangle test.
On a different note, 30 min protein rest.

What if he types up his conclusions in a manner that makes it look like it was published in a peer-reviewed journal and insists he has data but doesn't publish it? Or does he need vague cites to actual research for the trifecta?
Anyone can write a paper that looks scientific...

https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/

Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #481 on: September 30, 2016, 12:58:30 pm »
Sorry man, but nobody here is going to believe that you know what "it" is or that your friend can make "it" without research papers, backup data and triangle test.
On a different note, 30 min protein rest.

What if he types up his conclusions in a manner that makes it look like it was published in a peer-reviewed journal and insists he has data but doesn't publish it? Or does he need vague cites to actual research for the trifecta?
Anyone can write a paper that looks scientific...

https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/
Maybe.. but when you actually try what said paper is talking about and it works, there's a very good chance it's legit.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #482 on: September 30, 2016, 01:41:45 pm »
Maybe.. but when you actually try what said paper is talking about and it works, there's a very good chance it's legit.


Try not to generalize the negative reaction to the GBF paper into one response. Yes, there were some people who felt that the data was presented as a scientific paper without scientific 'evidence'. Then there were lots of people like me who just felt that the process as presented in its absolutes of 'zero oxygen at every single phase' might well work but just wasn't feasible in the home. This whole idea of lodo brewing is fairly new to most homebrewers and it's gonna take some time for people to find their way, assuming they decide to try it out. Each his own.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #483 on: September 30, 2016, 01:50:41 pm »
Sorry man, but nobody here is going to believe that you know what "it" is or that your friend can make "it" without research papers, backup data and triangle test.
On a different note, 30 min protein rest.

What if he types up his conclusions in a manner that makes it look like it was published in a peer-reviewed journal and insists he has data but doesn't publish it? Or does he need vague cites to actual research for the trifecta?
Anyone can write a paper that looks scientific...

https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/
Maybe.. but when you actually try what said paper is talking about and it works, there's a very good chance it's legit.

or that it's confirmation bias.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #484 on: September 30, 2016, 01:55:23 pm »
I think it's groundhog day.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #485 on: September 30, 2016, 01:56:53 pm »
I think it's groundhog day.

Yep, seems that way.
Jon H.

Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #486 on: September 30, 2016, 02:09:42 pm »
I think it's groundhog day.
Isn't every day?

Offline natebriscoe

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #487 on: September 30, 2016, 02:16:22 pm »
I really wish some of you guys lived closer to me. Would have to do a demo. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Offline brewinhard

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #488 on: September 30, 2016, 03:57:45 pm »
And wasn't that before dosage rates were correct as well?

Sure was.  When I mentioned it to Joe he said it ought to help anyway and it seemed to.  We're interviewing him for the podcast in about 3 hours.

Will be brewing a Scottish Export in a couple weeks and will incorporate the correct dosing we discussed based on volume for both mash and sparge (and in the kettle). I still have yet to tap into my dortmunder which was the first one with the old dosing rate.
Can't wait to hear what Joe has to say regarding the product. Wish I was a fly on the wall. Guess I will have to wait for you to release it on the website. Thanks Denny!

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #489 on: September 30, 2016, 04:06:02 pm »
And wasn't that before dosage rates were correct as well?

Sure was.  When I mentioned it to Joe he said it ought to help anyway and it seemed to.  We're interviewing him for the podcast in about 3 hours.

Will be brewing a Scottish Export in a couple weeks and will incorporate the correct dosing we discussed based on volume for both mash and sparge (and in the kettle). I still have yet to tap into my dortmunder which was the first one with the old dosing rate.
Can't wait to hear what Joe has to say regarding the product. Wish I was a fly on the wall. Guess I will have to wait for you to release it on the website. Thanks Denny!


Yeah, looking forward to hearing the interview.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #490 on: September 30, 2016, 04:25:16 pm »
Joe's interview will be on Episode 25 coming out on 10/12.  When we get the results of our experiment, he'll be back to discuss them.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #491 on: September 30, 2016, 05:27:55 pm »
Joe's interview will be on Episode 25 coming out on 10/12.  When we get the results of our experiment, he'll be back to discuss them.

Very cool.

Big Monk

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #492 on: October 11, 2016, 10:35:45 am »
Sorry man, but nobody here is going to believe that you know what "it" is or that your friend can make "it" without research papers, backup data and triangle test.
On a different note, 30 min protein rest.

What if he types up his conclusions in a manner that makes it look like it was published in a peer-reviewed journal and insists he has data but doesn't publish it? Or does he need vague cites to actual research for the trifecta?
Anyone can write a paper that looks scientific...

https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/
Maybe.. but when you actually try what said paper is talking about and it works, there's a very good chance it's legit.

or that it's confirmation bias.

This is a very curious statement.

I'm from NY so let's use apples as an example:

At a basic level, if I give you a Gala apple from NY and a Gala apple from NZ, and I hint at the fact over and over again that the NZ Gala definitely tastes different, one could be forgiven for letting confirmation bias creep in. The flavors are likely to be so close that separating the two would be tough.

Now let's step it up another level. Now I give you a Gala apple and a Macintosh. It becomes a bit easier to discern the differences. Now let's say I give you a Gala and a Golden Delicious. It is now becoming incredibly easy to instantly discern the difference.

Now let's send it into the stratosphere: if I give you an apple and an orange, I highly doubt there needs to be any sensory analysis to prove they are different.

The point being that confirmation bias, in the form of sensory analysis of a beer, is more likely in situations where the control and variable are increasing similar (Gala/Gala, Brewtan/no brewtan) rather than increasingly different (Gala/GD, Apple/Orange, Low O2/Non Low O2).

Calling confirmation bias on people using the Low O2 methods, while touting how well Brewtan is working for you is a bit like "the pot calling the kettle black".

I wouldn't discount your influence on so many of the Brewers in the homebrewing community at large as another potential factor for the sudden "improvements" in people's product since using Brewtan.

I also wouldn't discount, in a general sense, that the recent discussions on oxygen in brewing haven't, in some subconscious way, change people's habits on at least the hot side of the process. In this sense, these improvements alone could explain why people are tasting "better" product using Brewtan.

Which is not to say you are not getting better product. It just seems unlikely.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 10:40:08 am by Big Monk »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #493 on: October 11, 2016, 10:56:13 am »
Derek, have you personally used Brewtan B? I have multiple times, and don't need Denny (or anyone else) to tell me the beers are different. Not quite Gala to Macintosh IMO. It just seems that we have a group of brewers here that have taken the reins from a guy who used to post here umm.....quite forcefully, ie, "My way or you're doing it wrong". There are a lot of ways to make good beer and I'm open to trying any of them, but I've yet to see any evidence of a single way to doing it right.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #494 on: October 11, 2016, 10:59:28 am »

Calling confirmation bias on people using the Low O2 methods, while touting how well Brewtan is working for you is a bit like "the pot calling the kettle black".

I wouldn't discount your influence on so many of the Brewers in the homebrewing community at large as another potential factor for the sudden "improvements" in people's product since using Brewtan.

I also wouldn't discount, in a general sense, that the recent discussions on oxygen in brewing haven't, in some subconscious way, change people's habits on at least the hot side of the process. In this sense, these improvements alone could explain why people are tasting "better" product using Brewtan.

Which is not to say you are not getting better product. It just seems unlikely.

I wonder if it's confirmation bias, I don't assume one way or the other.  We'll find out when we have 15 brewers do back to back batches with and without Brewtan and then conduct blind tastings  Hopefully that will give us some solid evidence.  I only wish the LODO people would do the same.  And why is it any more unlikely that Brewtan improves the beer than that LODO does?  At least there are years of scientific studies behind Brewtan.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell