[dmtaylor]

I'll nibble...

My sincere apologies again, please forgive me if I ever resemble a certain "Bryan" or others who change their username over and over and over again.  I've been the same dmtaylor online since the birth of the interwebs, and David M. Taylor offline for almost 42 years.  In real life I might even be considered kind of a nice guy.  This internet thing does weird stuff to the words that come out of my fingertips.

I totally agree that there's a thousand different ways to skin a mongoose, and none are wrong, unless you're a vegetarian.

Cheers.

[beersk]

Calling confirmation bias on people using the Low O2 methods, while touting how well Brewtan is working for you is a bit like "the pot calling the kettle black".

I wouldn't discount your influence on so many of the Brewers in the homebrewing community at large as another potential factor for the sudden "improvements" in people's product since using Brewtan.

I also wouldn't discount, in a general sense, that the recent discussions on oxygen in brewing haven't, in some subconscious way, change people's habits on at least the hot side of the process. In this sense, these improvements alone could explain why people are tasting "better" product using Brewtan.

Which is not to say you are not getting better product. It just seems unlikely.

I only wish the LODO people would do the same. 

Maybe they have and just don't want to share it with you...

I'll nibble...

My sincere apologies again, please forgive me if I ever resemble a certain "Bryan" or others who change their username over and over and over again.  I've been the same dmtaylor online since the birth of the interwebs, and David M. Taylor offline for almost 42 years.  In real life I might even be considered kind of a nice guy.  This internet thing does weird stuff to the words that come out of my fingertips.

I totally agree that there's a thousand different ways to skin a mongoose, and none are wrong, unless you're a vegetarian.

Cheers.

Now your social security number, address, and birth date, please?

[denny]

Maybe they have and just don't want to share it with you...

Which is their choice, but I find that pretty silly if it's indeed true.

[beersk]

Maybe they have and just don't want to share it with you...

Which is their choice, but I find that pretty silly if it's indeed true.

Not disagreeing with you. Just maybe they want you to find out for yourself, eh? That's what you always tell everyone else! Try it and see for yourself!

I certainly have noticed a difference in malt quality. Not going to do blind taste tests or any of that. All I know is I'm brewing better beer now because of it. If anything I think reduced O2 is better than not trying at all; an every-little-bit-counts sorta deal.

[dmtaylor]

Now your social security number, address, and birth date, please?

I'm sure it's all there for those willing to pay the $9.95.

[Big Monk]

Calling confirmation bias on people using the Low O2 methods, while touting how well Brewtan is working for you is a bit like "the pot calling the kettle black".

I wouldn't discount your influence on so many of the Brewers in the homebrewing community at large as another potential factor for the sudden "improvements" in people's product since using Brewtan.

I also wouldn't discount, in a general sense, that the recent discussions on oxygen in brewing haven't, in some subconscious way, change people's habits on at least the hot side of the process. In this sense, these improvements alone could explain why people are tasting "better" product using Brewtan.

Which is not to say you are not getting better product. It just seems unlikely.

I wonder if it's confirmation bias, I don't assume one way or the other.  We'll find out when we have 15 brewers do back to back batches with and without Brewtan and then conduct blind tastings  Hopefully that will give us some solid evidence.  I only wish the LODO people would do the same.  And why is it any more unlikely that Brewtan improves the beer than that LODO does?  At least there are years of scientific studies behind Brewtan.

The basic concepts that drive Low O2 brewing are detailed in innumerable brewing textbooks and scientific papers dating back to at least the early 1970s.

I would think what drives most people's desire for "evidence" and "experiments" is the desire to not have to tread new water without assurance. Which is fine. I can grasp that some people don't want to buy new equipment, try new methods, etc.

The assurance is in the plentiful backlog of scientific materials detailing the basics of the process. The choice is always in the Brewers hands whether to use those resources.

[Joe Sr.]

Derek,

Rather than rehash the discussion about brewing textbooks, how about a report on your journey?  You've pulled a rather dramatic 180.

What gives?

[natebriscoe]

For me the difference is night and day, I don't see a reason to do further testing to prove it works. Any testing at this point is to streamline o2 reduction in my brewing process. Would the more and more people popping up saying it works not be at least a little conformation, for those that need proof before trying it? Another note this Bryan person must have really pissed everyone off here.

[denny]

For me the difference is night and day, I don't see a reason to do further testing to prove it works. Any testing at this point is to streamline o2 reduction in my brewing process. Would the more and more people popping up saying it works not be at least a little conformation, for those that need proof before trying it? Another note this Bryan person must have really pissed everyone off here.

OK, then I'll use the same standard of evidence for Brewtan...it's SO OBVIOUS it works that I don't need to do any objective testing.  Would you accept that?

[natebriscoe]

For me the difference is night and day, I don't see a reason to do further testing to prove it works. Any testing at this point is to streamline o2 reduction in my brewing process. Would the more and more people popping up saying it works not be at least a little conformation, for those that need proof before trying it? Another note this Bryan person must have really pissed everyone off here.

OK, then I'll use the same standard of evidence for Brewtan...it's SO OBVIOUS it works that I don't need to do any objective testing.  Would you accept that?

I'm am not saying brewtan does not work, at all. And I am more than willing to try it myself. See the difference, i am willing to find out on my own. My initial speculation is they will yield different results, but more than willing to try it for myself. Where is everyone getting it anyway?

[dilluh98]

Australia, for some strange reason.

[Big Monk]

Derek,

Rather than rehash the discussion about brewing textbooks, how about a report on your journey?  You've pulled a rather dramatic 180.

What gives?

I only brought up the sources as counterpoint.

My tastes shifted towards German lagers and the next logical step was to reconsider my position on Low O2. That's pretty much it.

[EnkAMania]

For me the difference is night and day, I don't see a reason to do further testing to prove it works. Any testing at this point is to streamline o2 reduction in my brewing process. Would the more and more people popping up saying it works not be at least a little conformation, for those that need proof before trying it? Another note this Bryan person must have really pissed everyone off here.

OK, then I'll use the same standard of evidence for Brewtan...it's SO OBVIOUS it works that I don't need to do any objective testing.  Would you accept that?

I'm am not saying brewtan does not work, at all. And I am more than willing to try it myself. See the difference, i am willing to find out on my own. My initial speculation is they will yield different results, but more than willing to try it for myself. Where is everyone getting it anyway?

Here's where I got mine http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/brewtan-b

[narvin]

Back on topic, slightly, Wyeast does sell brewtan, but in large sizes and only commercially.  I'm not sure if this means to any wholesaler or just to breweries.

http://wyeastlab.com/com_b_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=13

I'm thinking about asking my LHBS if they could order this from their distributor, and if they'd be willing to repackage it in smaller amounts. 

[Joe Sr.]

Derek,

Rather than rehash the discussion about brewing textbooks, how about a report on your journey?  You've pulled a rather dramatic 180.

What gives?

I only brought up the sources as counterpoint.

My tastes shifted towards German lagers and the next logical step was to reconsider my position on Low O2. That's pretty much it.

Sorry.  Can't let you off that easy.

Were you brewing German lagers previously?  Were the results between the two different methods that dramatic?

What about your Belgian beers?  Have you done those low O2?  Were the results similar?  You previously has a theory (IIRC) that copper might actually be necessary (or was it simply beneficial?) for Belgian beers.  But no copper is allowed over by there where you hang out these days.  Any thoughts?