Author Topic: Brewtan B  (Read 105273 times)

Offline narvin

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #720 on: October 14, 2016, 11:36:48 am »

Citizen science has instilled a false sense of the information that matters here and on other forums. Someone with a healthy dose of skepticism might be a prime candidate for a mini-mash:

http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?t=301

Subjectivity can be a powerful first tool in establishing someones empirical excursions on a topic.

That actually looks like a really fun (and highly informative) experiment. Should be pretty easy to put together, too.

I do plan to do some side by sides.  I have to get some Brewtan B first.

I don't need to know the details of your test but it wouldn't hurt.

Big Monk

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #721 on: October 14, 2016, 11:41:01 am »
Ultimately, the demands for, and emphasis placed on citizen science in this case are a bit distracting. Sure, the argument can be made that the results people are experiencing using Low O2 methods are subjective, but the beauty of it is that the mini-mash requires minimal equipment outlay. In fact, you very likely already have all the required equipment.

The difference between Regular and Low O2 wort is profound. That is my subjective opinion, based on tasting the control and variable in the experiment. Not a little different. Very different.

The mini-mash is a springboard to more detailed analysis should you choose, but it has to start somewhere. You may find, like I did, that my previous "apples to apple" and "apples to oranges" argument applies here.

And remember, nothing in the mini mash procedure precludes the simultaneous testing of Brewtan in the wort either.

Offline narvin

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #722 on: October 14, 2016, 11:42:38 am »

Citizen science has instilled a false sense of the information that matters here and on other forums. Someone with a healthy dose of skepticism might be a prime candidate for a mini-mash:

http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?t=301

Subjectivity can be a powerful first tool in establishing someones empirical excursions on a topic.

That actually looks like a really fun (and highly informative) experiment. Should be pretty easy to put together, too.

I'm skeptical of a mini mash for testing oxidation because you're going to get significantly more oxidation at that scale anyway, just as homebrewer batch sizes get more oxidation than a large batch.  But I'd be interested in trying this with Brewtan vs meta, making sure to adjust for things like pH and sodium/sulfate level.

But really, a full batch is the way to go.  I just need time to do it (and some brewtan, of course).

Big Monk

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #723 on: October 14, 2016, 11:44:08 am »

24ppm of the 100ppm dose rate, is not going to have a noticeable effect on the beer. Some german beers exhibit 3x that much in pale lagers(although you can CERTAINLY taste it at that point).

I would strongly advise against the usage of meta for de-oxygenation of tap water.


Why?  Does it require the dose to be higher, or does it just not work?

If it doesn't work, period, I'd begin to question whether the meta is doing anything at all.

The most obvious answer is it's just a waste. Why, if you can get </= 0.5 ppm DO from preboiling and chilling and then protection against 20 ppm DO from 100 ppm dose of SMB, would you waste active protection for up to 60 ppm DO by using SMB to remove oxygen from your tap water?

Because preboiling and chilling 18 gallons of water is a bigger waste  :)

You already have to take it to strike temperature so the additional energy is in taking it from say 160 F to a boil and holding it for a few minutes.

The Beerery

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #724 on: October 14, 2016, 11:47:04 am »

Offline narvin

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #725 on: October 14, 2016, 11:48:18 am »

24ppm of the 100ppm dose rate, is not going to have a noticeable effect on the beer. Some german beers exhibit 3x that much in pale lagers(although you can CERTAINLY taste it at that point).

I would strongly advise against the usage of meta for de-oxygenation of tap water.


Why?  Does it require the dose to be higher, or does it just not work?

If it doesn't work, period, I'd begin to question whether the meta is doing anything at all.

The most obvious answer is it's just a waste. Why, if you can get </= 0.5 ppm DO from preboiling and chilling and then protection against 20 ppm DO from 100 ppm dose of SMB, would you waste active protection for up to 60 ppm DO by using SMB to remove oxygen from your tap water?

Because preboiling and chilling 18 gallons of water is a bigger waste  :)

You already have to take it to strike temperature so the additional energy is in taking it from say 160 F to a boil and holding it for a few minutes.

My water starts at 80 in the summer. Plus there's the latent heat of vaporization.

Quote
The molecules in liquid water are held together by relatively strong hydrogen bonds, and its enthalpy of vaporization, 40.65 kJ/mol, is more than five times the energy required to heat the same quantity of water from 0 °C to 100 °C (cp = 75.3 J K−1 mol−1).

Energy is obviously an issue but I'm more interested in time.

 If I'm taking a shortcut like using SMB (which is not typical for any German brewer, let's be honest), I might as well go all the way.

Offline zwiller

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #726 on: October 14, 2016, 11:49:01 am »
And remember, nothing in the mini mash procedure precludes the simultaneous testing of Brewtan in the wort either.

Beat me to it!  Mind if I ask your opinion about LODO impact on hop signature/flavor/aroma?   
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline narvin

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #727 on: October 14, 2016, 11:49:18 am »

The Beerery

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #728 on: October 14, 2016, 11:50:42 am »
http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=353


 ;)

Thanks.  I don't see anything about Brewtan here though.

It wasn't in regards to brewtan, it was in regards to you not wanting to preboil your water.

Offline narvin

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #729 on: October 14, 2016, 11:58:26 am »
http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=353


 ;)

Thanks.  I don't see anything about Brewtan here though.

It wasn't in regards to brewtan, it was in regards to you not wanting to preboil your water.

Got it.  I see I'm not the first person to want to take a shortcut!

Offline narvin

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #730 on: October 14, 2016, 11:59:36 am »
Off topic, but you have to be a homebrewer to see this picture and not immediately think something nefarious is going on:


Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #731 on: October 14, 2016, 12:12:27 pm »
Off topic, but you have to be a homebrewer to see this picture and not immediately think something nefarious is going on:




:)   And I'll bet more brewers around here have that scale than any other one. I like mine.
Jon H.

Offline yso191

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #732 on: October 14, 2016, 12:49:11 pm »
I have not read the whole thread so if this is a repeat, just ignore or delete.

I found the place in Australia that sells Brewtan B: http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/brewtan-b
Steve
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #733 on: October 14, 2016, 12:58:59 pm »
Off topic, but you have to be a homebrewer to see this picture and not immediately think something nefarious is going on:




:)   And I'll bet more brewers around here have that scale than any other one. I like mine.
If one is really serious, it's triple beam balance or nothing.

Online denny

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Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #734 on: October 14, 2016, 01:07:34 pm »
I use a reloading scale that weighs in grains.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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