Author Topic: Brewtan B  (Read 105083 times)

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1760
  • Southern Maryland
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #765 on: October 17, 2016, 06:08:31 pm »
Here's my big question: Since I'm tied to my copper-using Therminator, would Brewtan B help "offset" this when brewing using low-O2 methods? Seems to me it will...
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #766 on: October 17, 2016, 06:12:52 pm »
Here's my big question: Since I'm tied to my copper-using Therminator, would Brewtan B help "offset" this when brewing using low-O2 methods? Seems to me it will...


Wish I could answer scientifically. My gut reaction is that it might be what Brewtan does best and could account for the improvement some of us are seeing. Joe F seemed to concur on the podcast and he is in a better position to know. 
Jon H.

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #767 on: October 17, 2016, 06:22:47 pm »
That question is a tough one. To know the answer you would have to get the wort tested to know the levels of copper in the wort. However not just the use of copper is going to go against you in his case.  Anyone using normal tap water is going to potentially have heavy metals here as well. Which could thwart your low oxygen brewing techniques in the mash tun as well.
I think the short answer to both is yes, it could benefit you. The long answer is much longer and scientific. I have nothing against Joe either... but don't forget he is a salesman that sells a product. 

Offline homoeccentricus

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2009
  • A twerp from Antwerp
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #768 on: October 18, 2016, 06:03:15 am »
Theoretically speaking, will brewtan b do anything for me if I use demi-water and a stainless steel chiller?
Frank P.

Staggering on the shoulders of giant dwarfs.

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #769 on: October 18, 2016, 06:25:09 am »
Theoretically speaking, will brewtan b do anything for me if I use demi-water and a stainless steel chiller?

It will bind up some of the undesirable proteins in the mash and boil that typically get removed through process points such as managing the correct mash pH, mash filtering, etc.

Also, as Bryan has pointed out in a few other places, it will give you some protection during packaging if your transfer process is deficient. Since fermentation has essentially eliminated O2, improper purging, transfer and packaging can allow for oxygen ingress which may be the catalyst for Fenton reactions, which Brewtan B should serve to mitigate.

So yes if you feel your purging, transfer and packaging stage is deficient. No if that stage of your process is sound.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 06:30:03 am by Big Monk »

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1825
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #770 on: October 18, 2016, 08:27:21 am »
Theoretically speaking, will brewtan b do anything for me if I use demi-water and a stainless steel chiller?

It will bind up some of the undesirable proteins in the mash and boil that typically get removed through process points such as managing the correct mash pH, mash filtering, etc.

Also, as Bryan has pointed out in a few other places, it will give you some protection during packaging if your transfer process is deficient. Since fermentation has essentially eliminated O2, improper purging, transfer and packaging can allow for oxygen ingress which may be the catalyst for Fenton reactions, which Brewtan B should serve to mitigate.

So yes if you feel your purging, transfer and packaging stage is deficient. No if that stage of your process is sound.
This could very well explain my situation because I do open transfers to purged kegs.  I know a lot of people do closed transfers using CO2 but I have just never been into that idea.  I have to say though that I would be surprised that the sort of harsh finish that I had been getting in some of my beers were due to open transfer alone.  I'm willing to accept it if that's the case but it would be surprising.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #771 on: October 18, 2016, 09:11:02 am »
Its quite astonishing what little you have to do to end up with out of range DO readings. For instance, you could follow the proper techniques to a T and still get out of range levels purely by the Co2 you use. For all intents and purposes the acceptable limit of DO in finished beer is .15ppm(you really want less). Simply adding gelatin to a keg, buy popping the top and adding it, is going to put you above .4ppm. Your open siphoning method I personally tested and have the hard numbers on. You are looking at .7-.9ppm which is 7 to 9 times the acceptable limit. Even doing a closed transfer with as proper as we can purge a keg, you are looking at .2-.3 if you let the beer come to final gravity.

Without a DO meter you are blind, but I am also not saying its imperative that you need one. There are ways you can mitigate the issues.

Offline wobdee

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #772 on: October 18, 2016, 09:34:56 am »
Theoretically speaking, will brewtan b do anything for me if I use demi-water and a stainless steel chiller?

It will bind up some of the undesirable proteins in the mash and boil that typically get removed through process points such as managing the correct mash pH, mash filtering, etc.

Also, as Bryan has pointed out in a few other places, it will give you some protection during packaging if your transfer process is deficient. Since fermentation has essentially eliminated O2, improper purging, transfer and packaging can allow for oxygen ingress which may be the catalyst for Fenton reactions, which Brewtan B should serve to mitigate.

So yes if you feel your purging, transfer and packaging stage is deficient. No if that stage of your process is sound.
This could very well explain my situation because I do open transfers to purged kegs.  I know a lot of people do closed transfers using CO2 but I have just never been into that idea.  I have to say though that I would be surprised that the sort of harsh finish that I had been getting in some of my beers were due to open transfer alone.  I'm willing to accept it if that's the case but it would be surprising.
I have found with open transfer a little SMB in the keg helps

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1825
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #773 on: October 18, 2016, 11:07:27 am »
At this point and with these latest batches of brewtan beer, I don't find myself looking for the cause of problems, off-flavors, etc. so I'm not going to futz with anything.  It could be that I went from making [what I consider] very good beer to making great beer and right now I'm celebrating that bump in beer quality.  But it may happen at some point where I'm tasting something that needs to be addressed and I will keep this thread in my back pocket and think about DO levels in my beer, etc.  I may just not be sensitive to DO in beer or maybe I don't know how to identify it.  Cheers Beerheads.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #774 on: October 18, 2016, 12:45:49 pm »
At this point and with these latest batches of brewtan beer, I don't find myself looking for the cause of problems, off-flavors, etc. so I'm not going to futz with anything.  It could be that I went from making [what I consider] very good beer to making great beer and right now I'm celebrating that bump in beer quality.  But it may happen at some point where I'm tasting something that needs to be addressed and I will keep this thread in my back pocket and think about DO levels in my beer, etc.  I may just not be sensitive to DO in beer or maybe I don't know how to identify it.  Cheers Beerheads.

It kinda goes back to the Low oxygen method, you would notice you are losing more, if you didn't lose it hot side first.
But at the end of the day, if you are happy and satisfied thats really all that matters.

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1825
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #775 on: October 18, 2016, 12:57:05 pm »
I am satisfied at this point and it's honestly the first time that I have looked around and thought that I had resolved issues that I have faced.  I'm a harsh critic of my beer and if I make one that I don't think should be served, I dump it.  That hasn't happened in a long time but the point is that when I'm drinking my beer I want to be proud of it and enjoy it and have everyone else who drinks it enjoy it as well.  I think that the beer I've made over the past 4-6 months have been the best I have brewed.  That could change but I am very satisfied where things are right now.  Cheers!
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline beersk

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3719
  • In the night!
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #776 on: October 18, 2016, 01:38:14 pm »
I am satisfied at this point and it's honestly the first time that I have looked around and thought that I had resolved issues that I have faced.  I'm a harsh critic of my beer and if I make one that I don't think should be served, I dump it.  That hasn't happened in a long time but the point is that when I'm drinking my beer I want to be proud of it and enjoy it and have everyone else who drinks it enjoy it as well.  I think that the beer I've made over the past 4-6 months have been the best I have brewed.  That could change but I am very satisfied where things are right now.  Cheers!
This is the way I feel about my beer since I started incorporating low O2 techniques. The last 4-6 months has been the best beer I've brewed in 8 years.
Jesse

Offline Village Taphouse

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1825
  • Ken from Chicago
    • The new Mayfair Court Brewhouse
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #777 on: October 18, 2016, 01:51:11 pm »
I am satisfied at this point and it's honestly the first time that I have looked around and thought that I had resolved issues that I have faced.  I'm a harsh critic of my beer and if I make one that I don't think should be served, I dump it.  That hasn't happened in a long time but the point is that when I'm drinking my beer I want to be proud of it and enjoy it and have everyone else who drinks it enjoy it as well.  I think that the beer I've made over the past 4-6 months have been the best I have brewed.  That could change but I am very satisfied where things are right now.  Cheers!
This is the way I feel about my beer since I started incorporating low O2 techniques. The last 4-6 months has been the best beer I've brewed in 8 years.
That's awesome.  Have you ever had a batch that was sort of so-so... not necessarily BAD but just not your best effort?  So you keep it and drink it but you're just not happy with it.  You try to keep others from drinking it because you don't want them to think you make crappy beer and when the keg finally blows, you celebrate?... Right, me neither.  :D  Depending on the beer and whatever faults I find with it, I may have done that in the past or I might dump it.  But with these latest batches coming out so good, when a keg goes down, tears are shed and there's a somber ceremony now.  :D  Cheers brewing brothers.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline natebrews

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #778 on: October 18, 2016, 02:53:27 pm »
Has anyone tried using argon to blanket the mash/water/keg?  It is pretty heavy and can make a pretty good blanket to keep the air out unlike a blanket of CO2 or nitrogen.  I think I heard Jamil talking about using argon to blanket a kettle sour they did at his brewery, but I've never heard of anyone else using it.  It seems like it might make a lot of low O2 stuff a lot easier.

Additionally, could you just put 5" of argon in the keg when you fill it and not worry about purging it by doing the sanitizer push out technique?
Risk of failure should be no deterrent to trying.

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Brewtan B
« Reply #779 on: October 18, 2016, 03:15:37 pm »
I have delved into the realm of purging with gasses. To be honest it was kind of pain and while it helped, it was no substitute for SMB. I have from the ground up configured my system with low oxygen in mind and using a minimal dose(30mgl) it gives me more than enough protection(I consume 10mg/l from strike to the final transfer to fermenter). Its just so easy to add 1gram of SMB and call it a day.