Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Beer dumb phase  (Read 3229 times)

Offline ethinson

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
  • Why is the beer always gone?
    • River Pirate Brewing Co.
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2016, 12:13:12 pm »
This isn't too dissimilar to bottle conditioning. I've learned not to even waste a 12oz bottle to check at 1-2 weeks. The carbonation is usually good but the beer is typically helped by a bit more time. Three weeks seems to be the starting point of good carbonation plus the beer tasting significantly better. 3-6 weeks at room temperature in the bottle is the peak period for most normal/low gravity ales, depending on style of course. If any remain at room temp after 6 weeks, I stuff as many as possible into the beer fridge and squirrel one or two in the back of the closet to see what happens to it long term.

I've also noticed that the longer the bottles sit in the fridge, the better they are. I can never seem to keep them in the fridge very long though.  ;)

I've noticed this is my bottled beers as well, but it also seems to go up and down during the process itself.  I'll taste it when I transfer to secondary, and even knowing it's not done, it'll give me a good idea, taste it when it's ready for bottling and it's awesome, then pop the first bottle after 2-3 weeks and it's kinda meh like "man... what happened..?" and then a couple more weeks later pop a bottle and it's incredible.  Especially with my hoppy IPAs and my CDA they will go through a cycle of super bright, to dull, back to super bright.  It's the weirdest thing I've ever experienced with homebrewing.  Tasted my CDA at bottling and it was super citrusy (Mosiac/Cascade blend), popped the first bottle and it was super piney.  A friend told me "Don't worry, it will go back citrusy again" and damned if he wasn't right, a couple weeks later it was the nice Citrus/Pine blend I was shooting for.
SE Portland - AKA Beervana
Captain and Chief Deck Swabber - River Pirate Brewing Co.
Certified BJCP Beer Judge
2015 Oregon Brew Crew Member of the Year

Offline Iliff Ave

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4507
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2016, 12:31:21 pm »
This isn't too dissimilar to bottle conditioning. I've learned not to even waste a 12oz bottle to check at 1-2 weeks. The carbonation is usually good but the beer is typically helped by a bit more time. Three weeks seems to be the starting point of good carbonation plus the beer tasting significantly better. 3-6 weeks at room temperature in the bottle is the peak period for most normal/low gravity ales, depending on style of course. If any remain at room temp after 6 weeks, I stuff as many as possible into the beer fridge and squirrel one or two in the back of the closet to see what happens to it long term.

I've also noticed that the longer the bottles sit in the fridge, the better they are. I can never seem to keep them in the fridge very long though.  ;)

I've noticed this is my bottled beers as well, but it also seems to go up and down during the process itself.  I'll taste it when I transfer to secondary, and even knowing it's not done, it'll give me a good idea, taste it when it's ready for bottling and it's awesome, then pop the first bottle after 2-3 weeks and it's kinda meh like "man... what happened..?" and then a couple more weeks later pop a bottle and it's incredible.  Especially with my hoppy IPAs and my CDA they will go through a cycle of super bright, to dull, back to super bright.  It's the weirdest thing I've ever experienced with homebrewing.  Tasted my CDA at bottling and it was super citrusy (Mosiac/Cascade blend), popped the first bottle and it was super piney.  A friend told me "Don't worry, it will go back citrusy again" and damned if he wasn't right, a couple weeks later it was the nice Citrus/Pine blend I was shooting for.

Ha! Glad I am not alone here. My current hoppy pale ale has been in the keg for about 2 weeks. A few days ago it was tasting great. I took a sample yesterday and it was dull and almost watery. Since I have experienced this before I knew it would probably come back around.
On Tap/Bottled: IPL, Adjunct Vienna, Golden Stout, Honey Lager
Fermenting: IPA
Up Next: mexi lager, Germerican pale ale

narvin

  • Guest
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2016, 02:04:36 pm »
In the keg at refrigerated temps, most of the conditioning activity is yeast flocculating out and proteins coagulating and then settling out.  Since a keg draws from the bottom, you might be getting an excessive amount of both after a week or two of sitting.  This could be the "dumb" flavor... I'd call it murky or muddled.

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1816
  • Yakima, WA
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2016, 02:19:00 pm »
In the keg at refrigerated temps, most of the conditioning activity is yeast flocculating out and proteins coagulating and then settling out.  Since a keg draws from the bottom, you might be getting an excessive amount of both after a week or two of sitting.  This could be the "dumb" flavor... I'd call it murky or muddled.

Yup.  It tastes muddled.  Indistinct.  Muted.
Steve
BJCP #D1667

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” ― G.K. Chesterton

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2016, 03:47:38 pm »
In the keg at refrigerated temps, most of the conditioning activity is yeast flocculating out and proteins coagulating and then settling out.  Since a keg draws from the bottom, you might be getting an excessive amount of both after a week or two of sitting.  This could be the "dumb" flavor... I'd call it murky or muddled.


This ^^  It's why (for most beers) I like to speed up the sedimentation/clearing process by fining.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10678
  • Milford, MI
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2016, 04:29:50 pm »
I'm new to kegging but have found that when I get to the last beer its just right. :'(
This is true for my very hoppy beers. The polyphenols drop out, the beer is brilliantly clear, and best to my Palate. Others may like the flavors/sensations before that. Not me.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline jeffy

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4222
  • Tampa, Fl
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2016, 04:57:24 pm »
In the keg at refrigerated temps, most of the conditioning activity is yeast flocculating out and proteins coagulating and then settling out.  Since a keg draws from the bottom, you might be getting an excessive amount of both after a week or two of sitting.  This could be the "dumb" flavor... I'd call it murky or muddled.


This ^^  It's why (for most beers) I like to speed up the sedimentation/clearing process by fining.
Yeah, me too.  Clear beer tastes better.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1816
  • Yakima, WA
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2016, 05:04:04 pm »
So the consensus seems to be that it it a clarity issue.  I assumed it was some kind of development process; that the beer itself was undergoing chemical changes.

But if it is clarity, that has implications for the IPA I brewed on Saturday.  I will be transporting it to a friends house to be consumed at a party there.  That movement would kick things back up.  So I need to transfer to another keg, off of the trub in the original keg before transporting it.
Steve
BJCP #D1667

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” ― G.K. Chesterton

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2016, 05:07:07 pm »
  I will be transporting it to a friends house to be consumed at a party there.  That movement would kick things back up.  So I need to transfer to another keg, off of the trub in the original keg before transporting it.


Yeah, I don't fine IPA (one of the few I don't fine), but I do jump to another keg to leave the sediment behind after a couple days of crashing when I plan to transport.
Jon H.

Offline tommymorris

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3869
Beer dumb phase
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2016, 06:09:04 pm »
I think there is something more than clarity. I have noticed that after a beer clears, the taste improves. But, when I stir up the sediment and drink it after that initial lagering period, the beer doesn't go back to the original green taste. Generally, when I transport beer I drink the first pint (for the good of humanity) and serve the rest without hesitation. I don't think I am giving my guests a bad experience when doing this.

I think clarity is a parallel process that gives a general indication of completed maturation. But when you accelerate clarity you don't completely accelerate maturation. The overall taste of my gelatin fined beers still improves after 1-2 weeks in the keg, while clarity is reached in a few days. The taste improvement I experience from maturation is generally related to the ability to isolate and experience individual flavor components; a feature hop or malt.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 06:13:00 pm by alestateyall »

Offline lindak

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 42
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2016, 09:02:10 pm »
Thanks for this post--I have been wondering about this.   Like many of you, I find that my keg get beer is best 3 or 4 weeks after kegging.  I almost dumped my last two batches because I needed room and I was not in love with either the Cal Common or an IPA.  I decided to wait it out and a month later, both were pretty darn good.  Another observation:   During the winter, I occasionally do an extract batch indoors--  it seems like the extract brews peak earlier.  It could be due to my recipe rather than extract v. grain, but it does seem that way. 

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1816
  • Yakima, WA
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2016, 09:31:37 pm »
Thanks for this post--I have been wondering about this.   Like many of you, I find that my keg get beer is best 3 or 4 weeks after kegging.  I almost dumped my last two batches because I needed room and I was not in love with either the Cal Common or an IPA.  I decided to wait it out and a month later, both were pretty darn good.  Another observation:   During the winter, I occasionally do an extract batch indoors--  it seems like the extract brews peak earlier.  It could be due to my recipe rather than extract v. grain, but it does seem that way.

Interesting.  This would be a good experiment. 
Steve
BJCP #D1667

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” ― G.K. Chesterton

Offline blair.streit

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
Re: Beer dumb phase
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2016, 10:28:53 pm »
Palmer covers this pretty well in 8.3 of How to Brew. I'll be interested to see if his new revision changes any of this description, but the key points make sense to me:

1) Even though most yeast has settled out at this point, there is still plenty of active yeast that is engaged in things like reducing fermentation byproducts (acetaldehyde, esters, amino acids, ketones- diacetyl, pentanedione, dimethyl sulfide) and converting fusel alcohols into other compounds. The presence (and conversion) of these will produce changes in flavor.

2) High molecular weight proteins and tannin/phenol compounds will bind together and settle out.

Also Palmer doesn't mention it in this section, but I find that the yeast itself has its own taste, and that tends to get bound up with the other things settling out which can make for some confusing flavors early on. For example, I find that the first few pints of beers with roasted grains will taste way roastier than the rest. I assume that's either roast-coated yeast or fine bits of husk material from the roasted grains settling out. Same with hops.

Alestate - I completely agree that clarity and maturity are not the same thing. Finings get me partway there, but some of the maturation seems to only happen with time (or some magic combination of finings that I haven't tried yet). Of course if we had in-home centrifuges we could probably improve on the finings just a bit....