[dilluh98]

Man, I am really going to have to up my salts on the next bitter I make to see if it'll make that low gravity pop a bit more.

[skyler]

I've gotta say it: I don't think overly mineral-rich water improves English beers or hoppy beers. Having done extensive experimentation on this, my palate prefers beers with 50-150 ppm Calcium and a balanced 50-100 ppm Chloride and 50-100 ppm Sulfate. With maltier beers, I will favor Chloride to Sulfate 2-1 and with hoppier beers, I will favor sulfate to chloride 3-2.

I have had a lot of real ale in England and I don't think they are all using highly mineral-rich water, either. When I taste a homebrewed bitter or an IPA that is too rich in sulfate, I invariably find it harsh and my sulfate-rich beers have been marked down for "harshness" and "astringency" by competition judges. I just don't think it improves things to go overboard in minerals, even if it may be more historically accurate. For my mouth, having 50 ppm calcium and good pH is what matters.

[Iliff Ave]

I went with 150 ppm SO4 on my last ESB and while the mineral profile was ok, I didn't care much for the beer itself.  I think it was more recipe based.

Yeah this is a collaboration type brew with a buddy. It's mostly UK ingredients but we decided on US05 for yeast and more of an American type hop schedule (I think?). I am using a lot of ingredients that I am not familiar with so I don't really know what to expect or how good it will be.

I'm the last person to be a stickler for style, but you brewed an American Pale Ale with UK malts. British ale yeast is the hallmark of ESB character, and it's not really going to be recognizable as an ESB with US-05 (or American hops)

As far as the water profile goes, most ESB's have at least a moderate minerality. I think 200-300ppm of sulfate is what you need to really capture that authentic flavor. Of course, I'd rather brew to my tastes and keep it at 150ppm of sulfate, with about 80-100ppm of chloride.

Using ekg, fuggle and palisade hops so I think the yeast is more of the hang up.

My bad, I misread your post to mean that you had used American hops as well. I actually like a small amount of US hops to compliment the UK varieties in an ESB. Centennial, Meridian and Caliente have all done really well for me alongside EKG's.

No worries. When I mentioned 'American hop schedule' I can see where that caused confusion. I mainly meant that it is hopped more like an APA as far as addition times and amounts. So yes, this is basically an APA with UK malt and hops. I find the palisade hops to be englishy with some grassy notes and light stone fruit qualities. 

[mabrungard]

I have had a lot of real ale in England and I don't think they are all using highly mineral-rich water, either.

Not all English waters are highly mineralized. There are areas with Pilsen quality water.  I think some of the reason for the recommendations that Charles pointed out, was that the brewery water treatment firm he cited also sells products that will end up mineralizing the water with high SO4 and Cl. Their AMS product is a mixture of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids and that can result in high SO4 and Cl levels when neutralizing high alkalinity. Their recommendations are probably skewed by that reality.

I appreciate someone piping up with that opinion. When I brought this up on one of the English homebrewing forums I sometimes visit, I was severely lambasted as an unknowing Yank...unfamiliar with their tradition. As Skyler points out, any of us can test out high mineralization at any time. Most of us have found that more modest levels do tend to create better beer.

PS: Try dosing minerals in the glass first. That will help you find your desired mineralization without wasting a batch.

[charles1968]

When I brought this up on one of the English homebrewing forums I sometimes visit, I was severely lambasted as an unknowing Yank...unfamiliar with their tradition.

The irony is that most UK brewers prefer American pales to British styles these days.

[hopfenundmalz]

I have had a lot of real ale in England and I don't think they are all using highly mineral-rich water, either.

Not all English waters are highly mineralized. There are areas with Pilsen quality water.  I think some of the reason for the recommendations that Charles pointed out, was that the brewery water treatment firm he cited also sells products that will end up mineralizing the water with high SO4 and Cl. Their AMS product is a mixture of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids and that can result in high SO4 and Cl levels when neutralizing high alkalinity. Their recommendations are probably skewed by that reality.

I appreciate someone piping up with that opinion. When I brought this up on one of the English homebrewing forums I sometimes visit, I was severely lambasted as an unknowing Yank...unfamiliar with their tradition. As Skyler points out, any of us can test out high mineralization at any time. Most of us have found that more modest levels do tend to create better beer.

PS: Try dosing minerals in the glass first. That will help you find your desired mineralization without wasting a batch.

About a year ago we toured the Jennings brewery in Cockermouth Cumbria UK. The guide said the water was very soft,but the brewery added minerals. I saw bags of salt, gypsum, epsum, and CaCl2 on pallats in the brewery.