Author Topic: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings  (Read 1398 times)

Offline war2112

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Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« on: May 22, 2016, 12:10:49 AM »
Hi all,

I am an extract only brewer and fairly new. I have 2 completed batches under my belt, 2 are conditioning in bottles and I have a Belgian Wit in the fermenter right now.

Lately, I got to thinking about those Little Kings. They are real expensive in the liquor store, 8 bucks for an 8 pack of 7 oz. bottles. Screw that, I use to buy them by the case.I do remember liking them but haven;t had in years.

For the malt, I am thinking definitely light DME and clearly some flaked maize as steeping grains to get that signature taste. What about hops? I know it has a low IBU. Also, can I ferment as an ale? I don't have the temp control for lager yeasts so really hoping I can use an ale yeast or at least a lager yeast that can hold up at some 68 degrees F (inside fermenter temp).

Thanks!

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2016, 12:19:39 AM »
I believe Cream Ale is an American ale answer to all those lagers the German brewers brought to the USA with them. In that case I believe an American yeast strain should be used. WLP001, Safale US-05, Mangrove Jack’s M44, Danstar BRY-97, Wyeast 1056: choose your preference, there could be others used as well.

Definitely fermentation as an ale.

I think cluster would be a good hop. 1 oz @ 60 min

or even .5 oz @ 45 min and .25 oz @ 15 min would be nice.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 01:01:47 AM by BrewBama »
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2016, 01:54:38 AM »
Flaked maize needs to be mashed. You can just use a pound of crushed North American 2 row row and one to two pounds of flaked maize, steep at 150F for about 45 min to an hour, and use 1.25 qts of  water per pound of grain. That will change the starches to sugars.

Use some software and target 1.050 for you gravity. Maybe 15-20 IBU. Use an American bittering hop, Cluster as suggested, and then some Liberty, Mt. Hood, or Saaz at 10 minutes. A Chico yeast 001/1056 woUld work fine, ferment cool to keep the esters lower.

There are a couple of threads on this site if you search. Plenty of recipes on the net too.
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BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2016, 02:00:24 AM »
Flaked maize needs to be mashed. You can just use a pound of crushed North American 2 row row and one to two pounds of flaked maize, steep at 150F for about 45 min to an hour, and use 1.25 qts of  water per pound of grain. That will change the starches to sugars.

Use some software and target 1.050 for you gravity. Maybe 15-20 IBU. Use an American bittering hop, Cluster as suggested, and then some Liberty, Mt. Hood, or Saaz at 10 minutes. A Chico yeast 001/1056 woUld work fine, ferment cool to keep the esters lower.

There are a couple of threads on this site if you search. Plenty of recipes on the net too.


Great advice, all of it. OP, since you're using DME as your base, I'd use 2 lbs of flaked maize to help you get the dry, well attenuated finish that goes along with a cream ale.
Jon H.

Offline war2112

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2016, 05:56:24 AM »
I believe Cream Ale is an American ale answer to all those lagers the German brewers brought to the USA with them. In that case I believe an American yeast strain should be used. WLP001, Safale US-05, Mangrove Jack’s M44, Danstar BRY-97, Wyeast 1056: choose your preference, there could be others used as well.

Definitely fermentation as an ale.

I think cluster would be a good hop. 1 oz @ 60 min

or even .5 oz @ 45 min and .25 oz @ 15 min would be nice.

Thanks! Appreciate all the yeast choices. Also, Cluster at 60 minutes sounds like a plan.

Offline war2112

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2016, 06:00:56 AM »
Flaked maize needs to be mashed. You can just use a pound of crushed North American 2 row row and one to two pounds of flaked maize, steep at 150F for about 45 min to an hour, and use 1.25 qts of  water per pound of grain. That will change the starches to sugars.

Use some software and target 1.050 for you gravity. Maybe 15-20 IBU. Use an American bittering hop, Cluster as suggested, and then some Liberty, Mt. Hood, or Saaz at 10 minutes. A Chico yeast 001/1056 woUld work fine, ferment cool to keep the esters lower.

There are a couple of threads on this site if you search. Plenty of recipes on the net too.

Wow, great advice.

I have no way of mashing at this point. I see the bags of flaked maize in my local home brew store. Is there any way I can steep that maize? Sorry if that is a stupid question and maybe you already answered.

Yeah, keeping the ferment cool is my greatest challenge right now. I try like hell to keep it under 70 and if possible 68 or lower.

Offline war2112

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2016, 06:03:57 AM »
Flaked maize needs to be mashed. You can just use a pound of crushed North American 2 row row and one to two pounds of flaked maize, steep at 150F for about 45 min to an hour, and use 1.25 qts of  water per pound of grain. That will change the starches to sugars.

Use some software and target 1.050 for you gravity. Maybe 15-20 IBU. Use an American bittering hop, Cluster as suggested, and then some Liberty, Mt. Hood, or Saaz at 10 minutes. A Chico yeast 001/1056 woUld work fine, ferment cool to keep the esters lower.

There are a couple of threads on this site if you search. Plenty of recipes on the net too.


Great advice, all of it. OP, since you're using DME as your base, I'd use 2 lbs of flaked maize to help you get the dry, well attenuated finish that goes along with a cream ale.

Thanks! Looking back, I realize those Little Kings were actually pretty good. That corn adjunct really stood out.Now that I am making my own, I thought I would give a cream ale a shot.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2016, 11:57:29 AM »
Flaked maize needs to be mashed. You can just use a pound of crushed North American 2 row row and one to two pounds of flaked maize, steep at 150F for about 45 min to an hour, and use 1.25 qts of  water per pound of grain. That will change the starches to sugars.

Use some software and target 1.050 for you gravity. Maybe 15-20 IBU. Use an American bittering hop, Cluster as suggested, and then some Liberty, Mt. Hood, or Saaz at 10 minutes. A Chico yeast 001/1056 woUld work fine, ferment cool to keep the esters lower.

There are a couple of threads on this site if you search. Plenty of recipes on the net too.

Wow, great advice.

I have no way of mashing at this point. I see the bags of flaked maize in my local home brew store. Is there any way I can steep that maize? Sorry if that is a stupid question and maybe you already answered.

Yeah, keeping the ferment cool is my greatest challenge right now. I try like hell to keep it under 70 and if possible 68 or lower.
Sure you can mash! Get 2 pounds of flaked maize, and one pound of crushed North American 2 row barley. If you have a small pot, and a steeping bag, that is all you need. Get a gallon of water (no chlorine) and raise it to about 163F, when the grains are added it should settle at about 150F. Then wait an hour, check the temp and add a little heat as needed to maintain 150F +/- 2 or 3 F. After the hour, remove the bag of grain, let the liquid drain out, then all of the liquid can be added to your brew kettle. You will have done a mini-mash. You will say, gee that was easy, maybe I should try all grain.

Those are the steps I went through 20+ years ago.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline leejoreilly

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2016, 12:38:19 PM »

Yeah, keeping the ferment cool is my greatest challenge right now. I try like hell to keep it under 70 and if possible 68 or lower.

Cooling your fermenter (to ale temps) can be pretty simple. I ferment in a bucket; I put the bucket in a Rubbermaid 37 gallon tub (Home Depot, $20 or so), fill the tub with cold tap water up to the level of the wort in the fermenter, and throw a wet towel over the exposed top of the bucket. Drop in a frozen one liter water bottle or two and I can easily keep the water temp at 60-62F just by changing the bottles out in the morning and evening. I keep the full tub in the spare bathtub to make filling and emptying easier.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2016, 08:06:45 PM »

Yeah, keeping the ferment cool is my greatest challenge right now. I try like hell to keep it under 70 and if possible 68 or lower.

Cooling your fermenter (to ale temps) can be pretty simple. I ferment in a bucket; I put the bucket in a Rubbermaid 37 gallon tub (Home Depot, $20 or so), fill the tub with cold tap water up to the level of the wort in the fermenter, and throw a wet towel over the exposed top of the bucket. Drop in a frozen one liter water bottle or two and I can easily keep the water temp at 60-62F just by changing the bottles out in the morning and evening. I keep the full tub in the spare bathtub to make filling and emptying easier.
+1  Or, if you are fermenting in a carboy, you can put in a somewhat shallower tub of water.  Put an old T-shirt over the carboy such that it wicks water from the tub and point a fan at it.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline war2112

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2016, 11:42:29 PM »

Yeah, keeping the ferment cool is my greatest challenge right now. I try like hell to keep it under 70 and if possible 68 or lower.

Cooling your fermenter (to ale temps) can be pretty simple. I ferment in a bucket; I put the bucket in a Rubbermaid 37 gallon tub (Home Depot, $20 or so), fill the tub with cold tap water up to the level of the wort in the fermenter, and throw a wet towel over the exposed top of the bucket. Drop in a frozen one liter water bottle or two and I can easily keep the water temp at 60-62F just by changing the bottles out in the morning and evening. I keep the full tub in the spare bathtub to make filling and emptying easier.
+1  Or, if you are fermenting in a carboy, you can put in a somewhat shallower tub of water.  Put an old T-shirt over the carboy such that it wicks water from the tub and point a fan at it.

Thanks. Yes, that is what my current process is. The water in the tub stays at a pretty constant 62 degrees so figuring the inside of the fermenter is 5-6 degrees warmer then I am at 67-68 degrees which is a least livable.

Offline war2112

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2016, 11:50:35 PM »
Flaked maize needs to be mashed. You can just use a pound of crushed North American 2 row row and one to two pounds of flaked maize, steep at 150F for about 45 min to an hour, and use 1.25 qts of  water per pound of grain. That will change the starches to sugars.

Use some software and target 1.050 for you gravity. Maybe 15-20 IBU. Use an American bittering hop, Cluster as suggested, and then some Liberty, Mt. Hood, or Saaz at 10 minutes. A Chico yeast 001/1056 woUld work fine, ferment cool to keep the esters lower.

There are a couple of threads on this site if you search. Plenty of recipes on the net too.

Wow, great advice.

I have no way of mashing at this point. I see the bags of flaked maize in my local home brew store. Is there any way I can steep that maize? Sorry if that is a stupid question and maybe you already answered.

Yeah, keeping the ferment cool is my greatest challenge right now. I try like hell to keep it under 70 and if possible 68 or lower.
Sure you can mash! Get 2 pounds of flaked maize, and one pound of crushed North American 2 row barley. If you have a small pot, and a steeping bag, that is all you need. Get a gallon of water (no chlorine) and raise it to about 163F, when the grains are added it should settle at about 150F. Then wait an hour, check the temp and add a little heat as needed to maintain 150F +/- 2 or 3 F. After the hour, remove the bag of grain, let the liquid drain out, then all of the liquid can be added to your brew kettle. You will have done a mini-mash. You will say, gee that was easy, maybe I should try all grain.

Those are the steps I went through 20+ years ago.

This seems like the steeping grains I use with my extract kits. Tough that is only done for 30 minutes at the temp you suggested. So I can see where this is a little different.

After following the process you described and adding that to the brew kettle, I still need to add sufficient DME, right? Just add the DME and bring to a boil and follow a hop schedule?

I'm anxious to try the process you describe. I would like to get into partial mash as an interim step to all grain. I would go all grain sooner but I am an apartment dweller with an electric range. But maybe I'll stop using that as an excuse, get me a propane burner, a big ass kettle for full boil, and really mystify my neighbors!

Thanks for the advice.

Offline Hand of Dom

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2016, 08:00:49 AM »
Flaked maize needs to be mashed. You can just use a pound of crushed North American 2 row row and one to two pounds of flaked maize, steep at 150F for about 45 min to an hour, and use 1.25 qts of  water per pound of grain. That will change the starches to sugars.

Use some software and target 1.050 for you gravity. Maybe 15-20 IBU. Use an American bittering hop, Cluster as suggested, and then some Liberty, Mt. Hood, or Saaz at 10 minutes. A Chico yeast 001/1056 woUld work fine, ferment cool to keep the esters lower.

There are a couple of threads on this site if you search. Plenty of recipes on the net too.

Wow, great advice.

I have no way of mashing at this point. I see the bags of flaked maize in my local home brew store. Is there any way I can steep that maize? Sorry if that is a stupid question and maybe you already answered.

Yeah, keeping the ferment cool is my greatest challenge right now. I try like hell to keep it under 70 and if possible 68 or lower.
Sure you can mash! Get 2 pounds of flaked maize, and one pound of crushed North American 2 row barley. If you have a small pot, and a steeping bag, that is all you need. Get a gallon of water (no chlorine) and raise it to about 163F, when the grains are added it should settle at about 150F. Then wait an hour, check the temp and add a little heat as needed to maintain 150F +/- 2 or 3 F. After the hour, remove the bag of grain, let the liquid drain out, then all of the liquid can be added to your brew kettle. You will have done a mini-mash. You will say, gee that was easy, maybe I should try all grain.

Those are the steps I went through 20+ years ago.

This seems like the steeping grains I use with my extract kits. Tough that is only done for 30 minutes at the temp you suggested. So I can see where this is a little different.

After following the process you described and adding that to the brew kettle, I still need to add sufficient DME, right? Just add the DME and bring to a boil and follow a hop schedule?

I'm anxious to try the process you describe. I would like to get into partial mash as an interim step to all grain. I would go all grain sooner but I am an apartment dweller with an electric range. But maybe I'll stop using that as an excuse, get me a propane burner, a big ass kettle for full boil, and really mystify my neighbors!

Thanks for the advice.

My first steps into allgrain were doing 10L batches using the BIAB method on an electric hob.  Definitely a good way of learning the process, and keeps the starting costs to a minimum.  It's a very similar process to the steep grains/extract method, and the timescales are roughly equivalent.
Dom

Currently drinking - Amarillo saison
Currently fermenting - Pale ale 1 - 2017

Offline JT

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Re: Suggestions for a cream ale similar to Little Kings
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2016, 02:55:47 AM »
Don't forget to hit yourself in the melon with a hammer to replicate the headache from Little Killers.  Or maybe I just drank too many of them...