Author Topic: Berliner Wiesse  (Read 1499 times)

Offline greatplainsbrewer

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Berliner Wiesse
« on: May 23, 2016, 02:29:18 PM »
First time attempted sour.  I have a Berliner Weisse going.  It was brewed March 28 from Stan Hieronymus's recipe in "Brewing with Wheat."  It was 50/50 pils and wheat malt with about 2.5 IBU's of Hersbrucker.  I pitched one package of 1007 and one of 5335.  It seemed to ferment (68 F) normally but took a while to clear.  No problem, just took longer than my usual ales and lagers to drop clear.  As it began to drop clear it has now formed what I assume to be a pellicle and now looks to be 'fermenting' again with what I assume is the lactic bacteria.  Is this normal- I had hoped to turn this around fairly quickly?

My thought is that the package of 5335 with no lactic starter was not enough bacteria.

Looking for ideas, thanks in advance

Online kramerog

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 05:16:21 PM »
I somewhat doubt that you are seeing a secondary fermentation with 5335.  IIRC, 5335 only consumes glucose so it can only eat the glucose in the wort initially and glucose produced by the yeast. 

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 07:47:15 PM »
I would taste it and find out where it's at with the level of sour that you want. Your method will probably not leave it very sour right now and it could take more time, but only taste will tell.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 07:59:17 PM »
Souring with lacto works better when you sour the sweet wort with lacto first and boil that when its reached your preferred pH target. The boiled wort is bittered to the degree desired and then the yeast is added to the cooled wort for the final fermentation.
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Online dannyjed

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2016, 08:45:01 PM »
Souring with lacto works better when you sour the sweet wort with lacto first and boil that when its reached your preferred pH target. The boiled wort is bittered to the degree desired and then the yeast is added to the cooled wort for the final fermentation.
Yes, this would be the faster method.
Dan Chisholm

Offline greatplainsbrewer

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 01:50:03 PM »
OK thanks for the replies.  This is new territory for me but my thought was that if I screw this up its a fairly low cost batch.  At this point I'm leaning toward taking a gravity sample and if it is at a final gravity (1.008 ish) I'll go ahead and bottle condition it and see if it develops a little more sour character during the summer.

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 12:09:31 AM »
Try this resource next time. Understanding off flavors with sours helps refine your process or it has with mine.

http://sourbeerblog.com/fast-souring-lactobacillus/

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2016, 12:43:00 PM »
OK thanks for the replies.  This is new territory for me but my thought was that if I screw this up its a fairly low cost batch.  At this point I'm leaning toward taking a gravity sample and if it is at a final gravity (1.008 ish) I'll go ahead and bottle condition it and see if it develops a little more sour character during the summer.

If you would like to speed up the souring process a bit and create more acidity (and don't mind a mixed fermentaiton going on) then you may want to consider pitching the dregs of a few commercial sour beers that you enjoy the flavor profile of. These will help to increase acidity and deepen the complexity with the depth of microbes added depending on the bottles.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2016, 02:31:50 PM »
If you would like to speed up the souring process a bit and create more acidity (and don't mind a mixed fermentaiton going on) then you may want to consider pitching the dregs of a few commercial sour beers that you enjoy the flavor profile of. These will help to increase acidity and deepen the complexity with the depth of microbes added depending on the bottles.

Although if he goes that route there is a good chance the sour beer contains brett which will continue to attenuate in the bottle and result in overcarbonation/bombs.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2016, 03:08:49 PM »
If you would like to speed up the souring process a bit and create more acidity (and don't mind a mixed fermentaiton going on) then you may want to consider pitching the dregs of a few commercial sour beers that you enjoy the flavor profile of. These will help to increase acidity and deepen the complexity with the depth of microbes added depending on the bottles.

Although if he goes that route there is a good chance the sour beer contains brett which will continue to attenuate in the bottle and result in overcarbonation/bombs.
Or pedio that will get all ropey.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2016, 10:22:59 PM »
Agreed.  This approach will have to either be aged a bit longer in a keg or in a secondary carboy prior to packaging.

Offline greatplainsbrewer

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2016, 04:49:51 PM »
Thanks for the responses.  Racked it to a secondary carbon. pH is only at 3.8 on a freshly calibrated meter.  Next time I go to the big town (Omaha) I'll pick up a few commercials and add the dregs.  Not out much at this point

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2016, 06:28:50 PM »
You won't be disappointed. Your berliner will need to age regardless if you add more dregs or not to allow the bacteria to create sufficient acidity (lactic acid). If you do decide to go the route with the dregs here is one tip...

Try to keep the fermenter in a cool spot (low 60's F is possible) as this will minimize the funk impact from any brettanomyces in the blends that could become to over-powering in a simple berliner.

Offline greatplainsbrewer

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2016, 04:09:43 PM »
Update- I purchased two bottles of Bayerischer Bahnhof Berliner Style Weisse, drank them, made notes, and dumped them into the Berliner carboy back in June.  Just took a sample- 1.003 and noticeably sour.  I didn't test with a pH meter but the sample matched my notes and memory.

Now I need to carbonate this.  The original plan was to bottle condition it with 5 oz of cane sugar.  My guess is that there isn't much of the original yeast (1007) left in good condition.  It occurred to me that the acidic beer might be inhospitable to fresh yeast.  I have a packet of s04 that I planned to use.

Anybody have experience with this situation?

Thanks

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Berliner Wiesse
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 03:59:11 PM »
I wouldn't be too worried that the beer wouldn't carbonate after just four months. It's right about that time that for me I'd start thinking about adding additional yeast at bottling to ensure rapid carbonation but you are 98% certain to get carbonation without reyeasting. It may take a few extra weeks. You may want to add fresh yeast just to remove any doubt and get quick carbonation. You could break open a pack of dry yeast and add a little (to the bucket or directly into each bottle) or if you have some slurry hanging around from a fairly neutral yeast you could add that to the bottling bucket.

I've never had a problem with acidity and carbonation myself but if adding a little extra yeast at bottling will give you more confidence that your beer will turn out will then it's a worthwhile couple of dollars.
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