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Author Topic: pH Effects?  (Read 4589 times)

Offline zwiller

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2016, 08:03:27 am »
It's all about pH to me and going higher on dark stuff is the key. 


Yup. Makes all the difference.

Schwarz type is stuff is a bit unique.  Typically I go lower for lagers since the yeast doesn't drop it as much as ales so if I had wager a guess on the schwarzbier styles since I've not really focused on them I would say mash higher to limit roasty character but then acidify in kettle to drop in inline with lagers.  All this being said, heinie/st paulie/becks/etc dark are 99% likely same beers as their lighter counterparts but with an addition of sinamar IMO.  They probably just dose at packaging...   
Sam
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2016, 08:16:24 am »
heinie/st paulie/becks/etc dark are 99% likely same beers as their lighter counterparts but with an addition of sinamar IMO.  They probably just dose at packaging...   


Judging by the taste, I wouldn't doubt it.
Jon H.

Offline zwiller

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2016, 08:27:27 am »
A quick gander over at Weyermann says that there is no pH issue with Sinimar.

Thanks for pointing that out. I just looked on their website and I see it too. That wasn't there last time I checked (year or 2 ago).

I think your point is well taken tho.  There's probably some limits to it's use. 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Online denny

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2016, 08:54:58 am »
MoreBeer doesnt sell sinimar, but I prefer to use grains.

Midnight Wheat and Carafa Special are supposed to be the least roasty.

Sinamar is grains...or was before they were mashed and fermented.
Denny, not fermented.
http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=26&umenue=yes&idmenue=&sprache=2

It is a color addition. On the tour I was on in Nov. they said Weyermann bought the company that made the extract in the 30s IIRC. The original wa sin Berlin.

Interesting.  I read a FAQ there yesterday that said they were.  Wonder if I can find it again?
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2016, 09:34:04 am »
MoreBeer doesnt sell sinimar, but I prefer to use grains.

Midnight Wheat and Carafa Special are supposed to be the least roasty.

Sinamar is grains...or was before they were mashed and fermented.
Denny, not fermented.
http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=26&umenue=yes&idmenue=&sprache=2

It is a color addition. On the tour I was on in Nov. they said Weyermann bought the company that made the extract in the 30s IIRC. The original wa sin Berlin.

Interesting.  I read a FAQ there yesterday that said they were.  Wonder if I can find it again?
i would be interested in that link. On the tour they said it started out as a food color additive.

Well found one from old Horst. How fermentable is an all Carafa wort? 0 DP, so what would convert?
http://byo.com/hops/item/1374-sinamar
Jeff Rankert
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Offline zwiller

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2016, 09:45:57 am »
AWESOME ARTICLE!
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2016, 09:55:29 am »
I wonder if some yeast is perched into the wort, so they can call it "beer" for the RHG?
Jeff Rankert
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Offline rodwha

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2016, 10:22:53 am »
A quick gander over at Weyermann says that there is no pH issue with Sinimar.  That said, I think raising the pH does a really good job of restraining the roasty character of darker malts so I would say aiming for 5.5 maybe even 5.6 would help get you color without the roast.  I mash at 5.6 on my porters.  I am not sure there is much info out there but I call all the various specialty dark malt techniques BS.  Sparge/late/cold.  It's all about pH to me and going higher on dark stuff is the key.

Very interesting! I've not come across that before. I'll certainly give it a try.

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2016, 10:27:38 am »
MoreBeer doesnt sell sinimar, but I prefer to use grains.

Midnight Wheat and Carafa Special are supposed to be the least roasty.

Sinamar is grains...or was before they were mashed and fermented.
Denny, not fermented.
http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=26&umenue=yes&idmenue=&sprache=2

It is a color addition. On the tour I was on in Nov. they said Weyermann bought the company that made the extract in the 30s IIRC. The original wa sin Berlin.

Interesting.  I read a FAQ there yesterday that said they were.  Wonder if I can find it again?
i would be interested in that link. On the tour they said it started out as a food color additive.

Well found one from old Horst. How fermentable is an all Carafa wort? 0 DP, so what would convert?
http://byo.com/hops/item/1374-sinamar

http://www.weyermannmalt.com/cz/faq.asp?umenue=yes&idmenue=250&sprache=13

What is Sinamar®?
Answer    Sinamar®, a registered trademark of the Bamberg specialty malts manufacture with the connected roasted malt beer brewery Heinz Weyermann®, was already developed by the company founder Johann Baptist Weyermann in the early 20th century.

It is a pure natural product, which is manufactured entirely from dehusked, roasted malt. There is an almost tasteless, de-bittered, highly liquid, deep black essence, which is used by breweries in more than 135 countries to lend their beers colors or to correct them without compromising their delicate taste of beer. Sinamar® derives its brand name from the Latin "sine amaro", which literally means "without bitterness". From its small beginnings in the early 20th century mainly as colorant for Bavarian ales and pastries, Sinamar® has developed into a universally used roasted malt extract over the decades.

Today it not only gives thousands of beer brands worldwide color on completely natural way and without unpleasant flavor impact but also helps products in the food and non-alcoholic beverages industry as well as juices and distillates to receive their attractive coloration. Sinamar® is now used by companies on all continents. The Sinamar® customers are responsible for ensuring that Sinamar®, although occasionally imitated, today is the international market leader in roast malt extracts.

Sinamar® is an exceptional malt in some respects. It is about 40 times as dark as the darkest beer. Compared to "normal" malt extracts Sinamar® has no fermentable sugar content, because it is not derived from spice, but from already fermented beer; therefore, it is concentrated, however, non-alcoholic beer, whose sugar content is used up and whose alcohol is removed. The purpose of Sinamar® is not the simplified production of wort or beer by commercial sites, which for example, do not have their own brewing house, but the de-bittered color correction of beverages and foods.

The biggest advantage in addition to the ease of use - the use is possible in almost all stages of production - is the "clean labeling" -decoration - so no E-number – of the natural product already in conventional quality. Moreover Sinamar® from Weyermann® is also available in organic quality.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2016, 11:05:32 am »
MoreBeer doesnt sell sinimar, but I prefer to use grains.

Midnight Wheat and Carafa Special are supposed to be the least roasty.

Sinamar is grains...or was before they were mashed and fermented.
Denny, not fermented.
http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=26&umenue=yes&idmenue=&sprache=2

It is a color addition. On the tour I was on in Nov. they said Weyermann bought the company that made the extract in the 30s IIRC. The original wa sin Berlin.

Interesting.  I read a FAQ there yesterday that said they were.  Wonder if I can find it again?
i would be interested in that link. On the tour they said it started out as a food color additive.

Well found one from old Horst. How fermentable is an all Carafa wort? 0 DP, so what would convert?
http://byo.com/hops/item/1374-sinamar

http://www.weyermannmalt.com/cz/faq.asp?umenue=yes&idmenue=250&sprache=13

What is Sinamar®?
Answer    Sinamar®, a registered trademark of the Bamberg specialty malts manufacture with the connected roasted malt beer brewery Heinz Weyermann®, was already developed by the company founder Johann Baptist Weyermann in the early 20th century.

It is a pure natural product, which is manufactured entirely from dehusked, roasted malt. There is an almost tasteless, de-bittered, highly liquid, deep black essence, which is used by breweries in more than 135 countries to lend their beers colors or to correct them without compromising their delicate taste of beer. Sinamar® derives its brand name from the Latin "sine amaro", which literally means "without bitterness". From its small beginnings in the early 20th century mainly as colorant for Bavarian ales and pastries, Sinamar® has developed into a universally used roasted malt extract over the decades.

Today it not only gives thousands of beer brands worldwide color on completely natural way and without unpleasant flavor impact but also helps products in the food and non-alcoholic beverages industry as well as juices and distillates to receive their attractive coloration. Sinamar® is now used by companies on all continents. The Sinamar® customers are responsible for ensuring that Sinamar®, although occasionally imitated, today is the international market leader in roast malt extracts.

Sinamar® is an exceptional malt in some respects. It is about 40 times as dark as the darkest beer. Compared to "normal" malt extracts Sinamar® has no fermentable sugar content, because it is not derived from spice, but from already fermented beer; therefore, it is concentrated, however, non-alcoholic beer, whose sugar content is used up and whose alcohol is removed. The purpose of Sinamar® is not the simplified production of wort or beer by commercial sites, which for example, do not have their own brewing house, but the de-bittered color correction of beverages and foods.

The biggest advantage in addition to the ease of use - the use is possible in almost all stages of production - is the "clean labeling" -decoration - so no E-number – of the natural product already in conventional quality. Moreover Sinamar® from Weyermann® is also available in organic quality.
So it can't be made from 100% Carafa. No Diastatic Power in Carafa, starches have been carbonized at the temps in the drum. It must be a RHG work around.
Jeff Rankert
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BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2016, 09:51:00 am »
MoreBeer doesnt sell sinimar, but I prefer to use grains.

Midnight Wheat and Carafa Special are supposed to be the least roasty.

Sinamar is grains...or was before they were mashed and fermented.
Denny, not fermented.
http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=26&umenue=yes&idmenue=&sprache=2

It is a color addition. On the tour I was on in Nov. they said Weyermann bought the company that made the extract in the 30s IIRC. The original wa sin Berlin.

Interesting.  I read a FAQ there yesterday that said they were.  Wonder if I can find it again?
i would be interested in that link. On the tour they said it started out as a food color additive.

Well found one from old Horst. How fermentable is an all Carafa wort? 0 DP, so what would convert?
http://byo.com/hops/item/1374-sinamar

http://www.weyermannmalt.com/cz/faq.asp?umenue=yes&idmenue=250&sprache=13

What is Sinamar®?
Answer    Sinamar®, a registered trademark of the Bamberg specialty malts manufacture with the connected roasted malt beer brewery Heinz Weyermann®, was already developed by the company founder Johann Baptist Weyermann in the early 20th century.

It is a pure natural product, which is manufactured entirely from dehusked, roasted malt. There is an almost tasteless, de-bittered, highly liquid, deep black essence, which is used by breweries in more than 135 countries to lend their beers colors or to correct them without compromising their delicate taste of beer. Sinamar® derives its brand name from the Latin "sine amaro", which literally means "without bitterness". From its small beginnings in the early 20th century mainly as colorant for Bavarian ales and pastries, Sinamar® has developed into a universally used roasted malt extract over the decades.

Today it not only gives thousands of beer brands worldwide color on completely natural way and without unpleasant flavor impact but also helps products in the food and non-alcoholic beverages industry as well as juices and distillates to receive their attractive coloration. Sinamar® is now used by companies on all continents. The Sinamar® customers are responsible for ensuring that Sinamar®, although occasionally imitated, today is the international market leader in roast malt extracts.

Sinamar® is an exceptional malt in some respects. It is about 40 times as dark as the darkest beer. Compared to "normal" malt extracts Sinamar® has no fermentable sugar content, because it is not derived from spice, but from already fermented beer; therefore, it is concentrated, however, non-alcoholic beer, whose sugar content is used up and whose alcohol is removed. The purpose of Sinamar® is not the simplified production of wort or beer by commercial sites, which for example, do not have their own brewing house, but the de-bittered color correction of beverages and foods.

The biggest advantage in addition to the ease of use - the use is possible in almost all stages of production - is the "clean labeling" -decoration - so no E-number – of the natural product already in conventional quality. Moreover Sinamar® from Weyermann® is also available in organic quality.
So it can't be made from 100% Carafa. No Diastatic Power in Carafa, starches have been carbonized at the temps in the drum. It must be a RHG work around.
I was at an event over the weekend, and chatted several times with Ray Daniels. Sinamar came up as one way to color a Schwarzbier. I asked about the process, and he said Sabine Weyermann had walked him through it on a personal tour. Yes it is 100% Carafa. The liquid is filtered out. Yeast is pitched, and it "ferments" for one hour. After one hour it is declared to be beer, and it meets the RHG.

Fermented for an hour! That is a good shortcut.
Jeff Rankert
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BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2016, 09:53:47 am »
Wow, nice 'workaround'. Good info, Jeff.
Jon H.

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Re: pH Effects?
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2016, 10:01:24 am »
Thanks, Jeff!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell