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Author Topic: Confessions of NE IPA brewers  (Read 12117 times)

Offline zwiller

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2016, 10:03:40 am »
I really doubt that the haziness is necessarily the intent in say, Heady Topper.  I think the intent is to not allow fining or other clarification methods to diminish the hop flavor and aroma of the beer.  By design the intent is to keep as much hop in the flavor and aroma as possible and it is likely that some of that flavor is stuck on the yeast in suspension.  The side effects of this intent is a haziness and softer, fuller mouthfeel than a clear IPA.

+1;  However, later the notion of "the more hazy, the better came up" and that's where I draw the line.   Check out Brewtan's nearly identical twin brother Tanal B.  Flour and oats are for amateurs.  ;D
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline dilluh98

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2016, 10:44:40 am »
I really doubt that the haziness is necessarily the intent in say, Heady Topper.  I think the intent is to not allow fining or other clarification methods to diminish the hop flavor and aroma of the beer.  By design the intent is to keep as much hop in the flavor and aroma as possible and it is likely that some of that flavor is stuck on the yeast in suspension.  The side effects of this intent is a haziness and softer, fuller mouthfeel than a clear IPA.

+1;  However, later the notion of "the more hazy, the better came up" and that's where I draw the line.   Check out Brewtan's nearly identical twin brother Tanal B.  Flour and oats are for amateurs.  ;D

Are you maybe referring to Tanal A?

From Wyeast website:

"Tanal A is a 100% natural, medium- to high-molecular weight tannic acid extracted from renewable plant materials specifically for the brewing industry. It can be used to enhance yeast and colloidal suspension (permanent haze) in beer. It is ideal for Hefeweizen, Witbier, and other styles where a cloudy appearance is desired."

Offline zwiller

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2016, 11:28:43 am »
Yep, A.  LOL, I first typed Brewtan A...
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline neddles

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2016, 02:31:07 pm »
You forgot the special "incantation" which helps to set the proper haze in this style.  ;)


Yeah, I think at the end of the incantation you sprinkle wheat flour into the kettle have to actually put dry hops in the beer. :)
Fix'd

Offline dilluh98

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2016, 03:23:51 pm »
Oops, forgot to add that I did put 5 oz total of Citra, Centennial and Simcoe in at the tail end of fermentation. Still no haze.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2016, 03:55:58 pm »
You forgot the special "incantation" which helps to set the proper haze in this style.  ;)


Yeah, I think at the end of the incantation you sprinkle wheat flour into the kettle have to actually put dry hops in the beer. :)
Fix'd




No, it's not fixed. We both know there's more than just lots of dry hopping that produces that milky haze. My IPAs would look like whole milk if that were the case.  :) This link let out some of the 'secrets' from the brewers themselves. Regardless of my thoughts on deliberate haze, everybody should drink what they like.

http://beergraphs.com/bg/973-two-brewers-admit-their-methods-for-haze/
Jon H.

Offline neddles

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2016, 04:20:16 pm »
You forgot the special "incantation" which helps to set the proper haze in this style.  ;)


Yeah, I think at the end of the incantation you sprinkle wheat flour into the kettle have to actually put dry hops in the beer. :)
Fix'd




No, it's not fixed. We both know there's more than just lots of dry hopping that produces that milky haze. My IPAs would look like whole milk if that were the case.  :) This link let out some of the 'secrets' from the brewers themselves. Regardless of my thoughts on deliberate haze, everybody should drink what they like.

http://beergraphs.com/bg/973-two-brewers-admit-their-methods-for-haze/

There are brewers taking short cuts because they don't understand how to do it. Crappy brewers aren't new to this world unfortunately. There are lots of well reputed brewers both (professional and home brewers) who are making these sans flour. If you read any of the more well known blogs out there you will see exactly how it is done. No flour. No flour in mine either. It's all in the yeast you use, when you dry hop and under what conditions. Quantity of dry hop is a secondary contributor. But, in response to the recipe given by the brewer above. There has to be dry hops. Also, in response I have my doubts about bottle conditioning these beers. My guess is that they won't turn out right even with the dry hop.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2016, 04:27:25 pm »
All good. Wasn't trying to rehash the whole NE IPA thing. No doubt that lots of dry hopping produces haze, but at the very least, lots of flaked grains (if not flour) definitely boosts that. If I ever get ahold of a fresh, good  example, I'm open enough to say I like it if it's good.
Jon H.

Offline neddles

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2016, 04:41:45 pm »
All good. Wasn't trying to rehash the whole NE IPA thing. No doubt that lots of dry hopping produces haze, but at the very least, lots of flaked grains (if not flour) definitely boosts that. If I ever get ahold of a fresh, good  example, I'm open enough to say I like it if it's good.
Flaked grain is one way to help it along. I wouldn't doubt if the aforementioned Tanal A has been used by some brewers as well, but I have no knowledge of that. I cant get fresh examples on the regular either so I had to make my own. Hope you get ahold of one sometime.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2016, 06:06:14 pm »
I recently made a wheat pale ale that I think tasted juicy. I used Wyeast 1010 yeast. The beer was quite cloudy at first and delicious; lots of citrus. After a few weeks in the keg the yeast started to floc and the beer had less hop flavor and tasted more dry. I shook the keg to get the yeast back in suspension and low and behold the fruity/juicy citrus flavor I liked came back.

I thought that beer had way more citrus and juicy flavor than craft beers I get locally. I think the juiciness was from the yeast based on the difference in taste when the yeast was in suspension and when not.

I normally prefer clear beer, but, I have find memories of that wheat pale ale.


Offline erockrph

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2016, 06:28:55 pm »
Not sure what all the fuss is about. I recently brewed this "New England Pale Ale":

OG: 1.051, FG: 1.009
75% MO
25% Flaked Oats
60 IBUs of Magnum @ 60 min
1 oz each of Centennial, Citra and Simcoe @ 0 min
2 oz each of Centennial, Citra and Simcoe for 20 min whirlpool @ 150F
WY1318 (Boddington's) open fermented @ 68F for 2 weeks.
100ppm each of Ca, SO4 and Cl.

Bottled it, let it carb for a few weeks @ RT, 2 days in the fridge and it pours damn near commercial clear out of the bottle. Nowhere near hazy let alone turbid. Absolutely delicious beer - maybe one of the best APA/AIPAs I've ever made but I'm not getting the look nor the "juicy" mouthfeel everyone talks about with these beers. I'm confused but love the results nonetheless.  :P

Triple the amount of hops you use and triple the length of your whirlpool. You will have all the haze you want at that point.

In my experience, it's really about the 4 oz/gallon mark where the haze becomes unavoidable. My one stab at the "intentionally hazy IPA" style (using about 22% flaked grains in the grist) definitely brought the haziness to another level (from "super-hazy" up to "opaque"). But even using nothing but light DME and US-05, you still get a damn hazy beer if you push the hops hard enough.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline dilluh98

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2016, 06:33:51 pm »
Oops, forgot to add that I did put 5 oz total of Citra, Centennial and Simcoe in at the tail end of fermentation. Still no haze.


But, in response to the recipe given by the brewer above. There has to be dry hops. Also, in response I have my doubts about bottle conditioning these beers. My guess is that they won't turn out right even with the dry hop.

What's the rub. I'd truly like to be enlightened and become less of a "crappy brewer". I'm not getting the haze or the purported mouthfeel. Wrong yeast? Wrong timing on dry hop addition? This style can't be bottle conditioned?

Offline neddles

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2016, 07:11:57 pm »
Oops, forgot to add that I did put 5 oz total of Citra, Centennial and Simcoe in at the tail end of fermentation. Still no haze.


But, in response to the recipe given by the brewer above. There has to be dry hops. Also, in response I have my doubts about bottle conditioning these beers. My guess is that they won't turn out right even with the dry hop.

What's the rub. I'd truly like to be enlightened and become less of a "crappy brewer". I'm not getting the haze or the purported mouthfeel. Wrong yeast? Wrong timing on dry hop addition? This style can't be bottle conditioned?

My "crappy brewer" comment was really directed at the folks who have taken to adding flour to their beer or other weird stuff rather than understanding that it can be done otherwise. I suppose crappy brewer is not the best way to put it but I would think adding flour is a significant risk to longer term microbial stability, not something I would want to do to my beer as a home brewer or a especially as a professional.

Anyways, yes the yeast matters. I have used 007 and 1318 to good effect but purportedly Conan will have the same effect. I haven't used Conan. Yes you can bottle condition but really any style of IPA seems to suffer from bottling relative to kegging in terms of flavor stability. I would want my NEIPA cold the entire time post fermentation so bottle conditioning would be a no go. No reason to follow my advice though, I'm just a random dude here. This guy has more cred. so you can start with his techniques. http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2016/06/new-england-apa-conan-and-london-iii.html

Offline zwiller

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2016, 06:28:13 am »
Not sure what all the fuss is about. I recently brewed this "New England Pale Ale":

OG: 1.051, FG: 1.009
75% MO
25% Flaked Oats
60 IBUs of Magnum @ 60 min
1 oz each of Centennial, Citra and Simcoe @ 0 min
2 oz each of Centennial, Citra and Simcoe for 20 min whirlpool @ 150F
WY1318 (Boddington's) open fermented @ 68F for 2 weeks.
100ppm each of Ca, SO4 and Cl.

Bottled it, let it carb for a few weeks @ RT, 2 days in the fridge and it pours damn near commercial clear out of the bottle. Nowhere near hazy let alone turbid. Absolutely delicious beer - maybe one of the best APA/AIPAs I've ever made but I'm not getting the look nor the "juicy" mouthfeel everyone talks about with these beers. I'm confused but love the results nonetheless.  :P

Triple the amount of hops you use and triple the length of your whirlpool. You will have all the haze you want at that point.

In my experience, it's really about the 4 oz/gallon mark where the haze becomes unavoidable. My one stab at the "intentionally hazy IPA" style (using about 22% flaked grains in the grist) definitely brought the haziness to another level (from "super-hazy" up to "opaque"). But even using nothing but light DME and US-05, you still get a damn hazy beer if you push the hops hard enough.

+1;  The science of this haze is actually quite simple: Polyphenols (PP) are haze precursors.  Hops are abundant with PP.  PP are precipitated and removed by boiling wort.  So, if you add alot of hops and do not boil them (<170F whirpool) you get haze.  That simple. 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline erockrph

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Re: Confessions of NE IPA brewers
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2016, 08:08:25 am »
Not sure what all the fuss is about. I recently brewed this "New England Pale Ale":

OG: 1.051, FG: 1.009
75% MO
25% Flaked Oats
60 IBUs of Magnum @ 60 min
1 oz each of Centennial, Citra and Simcoe @ 0 min
2 oz each of Centennial, Citra and Simcoe for 20 min whirlpool @ 150F
WY1318 (Boddington's) open fermented @ 68F for 2 weeks.
100ppm each of Ca, SO4 and Cl.

Bottled it, let it carb for a few weeks @ RT, 2 days in the fridge and it pours damn near commercial clear out of the bottle. Nowhere near hazy let alone turbid. Absolutely delicious beer - maybe one of the best APA/AIPAs I've ever made but I'm not getting the look nor the "juicy" mouthfeel everyone talks about with these beers. I'm confused but love the results nonetheless.  :P

Triple the amount of hops you use and triple the length of your whirlpool. You will have all the haze you want at that point.

In my experience, it's really about the 4 oz/gallon mark where the haze becomes unavoidable. My one stab at the "intentionally hazy IPA" style (using about 22% flaked grains in the grist) definitely brought the haziness to another level (from "super-hazy" up to "opaque"). But even using nothing but light DME and US-05, you still get a damn hazy beer if you push the hops hard enough.

+1;  The science of this haze is actually quite simple: Polyphenols (PP) are haze precursors.  Hops are abundant with PP.  PP are precipitated and removed by boiling wort.  So, if you add alot of hops and do not boil them (<170F whirpool) you get haze.  That simple.
I will be tapping my IPA that used a 120F whirlpool as my sole hop addition in the next few days. It will be interesting to see the level of haze it has.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer