Author Topic: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT  (Read 2059 times)

Offline brothermalcolm

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When it comes to making dark beers such as Stout and Porter, likely the two most popular grains are Roasted Barley and Black Malt (aka Black Patent). Each of these grains is produced differently and said to impart a different character, the former smoother and the latter ashy. Curious as to the validity of such claims, we attempted to figure it out ourselves. Results are in!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/30/roasted-grains-pt-2-roasted-barley-vs-black-patent-malt-exbeeriment-results/


Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 09:48:53 PM »
When it comes to making dark beers such as Stout and Porter, likely the two most popular grains are Roasted Barley and Black Malt (aka Black Patent). Each of these grains is produced differently and said to impart a different character, the former smoother and the latter ashy. Curious as to the validity of such claims, we attempted to figure it out ourselves. Results are in!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/30/roasted-grains-pt-2-roasted-barley-vs-black-patent-malt-exbeeriment-results/

Excellent. Keep up the good work.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 02:41:20 PM »
I wonder if homebrewers who did not like black patent were not properly adjusting the mash pH.  The pH readings suggest that black patent is more acidic than the other dark malts even at the same nominal lovibond value.

Offline denny

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 02:53:42 PM »
I wonder if homebrewers who did not like black patent were not properly adjusting the mash pH.  The pH readings suggest that black patent is more acidic than the other dark malts even at the same nominal lovibond value.

Entirely possible
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 03:17:27 PM »
I wonder if homebrewers who did not like black patent were not properly adjusting the mash pH.  The pH readings suggest that black patent is more acidic than the other dark malts even at the same nominal lovibond value.

Entirely possible


Yep, 5.6 pH definitely softens it. Or roasted barley for that matter.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 03:21:44 PM »
The exbeeriment pointed out one of the big flaws in predicting mashing pH...the acidity of roast grains vary quite a bit and that variation has no correlation to the roast color. The only saving grace is that roast grains are typically used at low percentage in most brews and their effect on pH is reduced for that reason.

I'll have to see if some sense can be made of roast grain acidity to possibly parse the roasts into categories that would improve pH prediction.
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Offline ethinson

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 06:24:46 PM »
Interesting experiment, thanks for doing that.  I've gotten some "ashtray" feedback on my last batch of Cascadian Dark Ale which I use Black Patent in and I've been debating switching to Roasted Barley.  Several people in my club seem to think that's a good idea, but seems like it might be a matter of personal preference.

I'll probably give it a try and see what I think.
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Offline santoch

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 07:13:26 PM »
Try Carafa Special 3 malt first.  It has the husk removed so you get less ashy/bitter/burnt flavor out of it.
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Offline goschman

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2016, 08:13:22 PM »
Try Carafa Special 3 malt first.  It has the husk removed so you get less ashy/bitter/burnt flavor out of it.

Midnight Wheat as well.
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Offline denny

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 08:37:27 PM »
I've gone back to using a bit of black patent in some of my dark beers.  I found that I went too far the other way with carafa and Midnight Wheat.  The beers were getting smooth to the point of being almost insipid.  A couple oz. of black patent restored the "oomph" I was looking for.
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2016, 09:27:46 PM »
I wonder if homebrewers who did not like black patent were not properly adjusting the mash pH.  The pH readings suggest that black patent is more acidic than the other dark malts even at the same nominal lovibond value.

Would it make a difference if the black patent were to be added to the mash just before vorlauf? 
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Offline chumley

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2016, 10:45:32 PM »
When I was in Ireland last fall, a very small brewery produced a stout called Burren Black which I thought was outstanding.  The brewer told me he uses both roasted barley and black patent in it.

Offline kramerog

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2016, 01:25:13 AM »
I wonder if homebrewers who did not like black patent were not properly adjusting the mash pH.  The pH readings suggest that black patent is more acidic than the other dark malts even at the same nominal lovibond value.

Would it make a difference if the black patent were to be added to the mash just before vorlauf?
Greg Noonan, RIP, suggested doing just that, but the flavor impact from dark grains added after the mash is a lot less than added at the start of the mash.

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Offline blair.streit

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2016, 02:52:43 AM »
I wonder if homebrewers who did not like black patent were not properly adjusting the mash pH.  The pH readings suggest that black patent is more acidic than the other dark malts even at the same nominal lovibond value.

Would it make a difference if the black patent were to be added to the mash just before vorlauf?
Greg Noonan, RIP, suggested doing just that, but the flavor impact from dark grains added after the mash is a lot less than added at the start of the mash.

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I've never really understood this logic either. It seems to me that adding dark grains later would just be the same as adding less dark grains.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: ROASTED GRAINS – PT. 2: ROASTED BARLEY VS. BLACK (PATENT) MALT
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2016, 11:57:55 AM »
I've never really understood this logic either. It seems to me that adding dark grains later would just be the same as adding less dark grains.


Same here. To me it's just so much easier to mash it all together at a higher pH. To each his own though.
Jon H.