Author Topic: rolling boil?  (Read 9994 times)

RPIScotty

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rolling boil?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2016, 01:28:03 pm »
Yes, well, but it's also what Kunze says. Should I take Kunze with a grain of salt as well?

It stands to reason that you should take anything anyone says with a fair amount of skepticism until you've tried it for yourself!

That last line was more of a reference to the fact that I don't own the Kunze text and it hasn't been widely read and digested among the brewers here.

If you read the reference it doesn't account for that bit of process in the authors brew days. Basically, I'm not sure of the context.

Until I have read that passage in the text and understand it in the context it was written, I can't take it as certainty.

Also, heat stress is talked about almost in passing. "Heat stress is there, avoid it!" There isn't any discussion about it or how it's referenced in the Kunze text.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 01:30:47 pm by RPIScotty »

Offline narvin

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2016, 03:14:11 pm »
Yes, well, but it's also what Kunze says. Should I take Kunze with a grain of salt as well?

I'd say that it's important to remember that not everything that applies at a commercial scale applies at the homebrew level.  For example, people worry a lot about fermenter geometry, but when your dealing with 5-10 gallons the pressure at the bottom is negligible, regardless of shape.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2016, 03:29:38 pm »
Based on the evaporation percentages that pro systems produce and the percentages we homebrewers often experience, it's my opinion that we homebrewers typically boil too hard and have too much exchange with the atmosphere...which results in too much evaporation.

Yes, the wort needs to be moving during the boil to help extract the elements from our hops and to expel undesirable elements from the wort. But we don't need the wort to be leaping from the kettle throughout the boil duration. I've gone to partially covering my kettle to help reduce the exchange with the atmosphere. In addition, I limit the boil vigor to the point that I can see that the wort is moving trub and hop particles throughout the kettle. The other thing I do at the end of the boil is to increase the vigor to try and expel any DMS that might have accumulated in the early boil. It seems to be working, but without comparative trials, its just conjecture on my part.

Boiling too hard, just wastes energy and you end up with a lesser volume of more concentrated wort. Since you can't produce kettle caramalization at boiling temps, that argument seems dubious to me. I think that perception that brewers say they achieve is just the result of the more concentrated wort.
Seems like a sound and common sense procedure, Martin. I think I'm going to follow that procedure.
Frank P.

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Offline narvin

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2016, 04:34:24 am »
With the same boil intensity, you will always get a higher boil off % on a homebrew system vs pro because the surface to volume ratio on a small kettle is so much higher.  So boil off isn't a good measure here.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2016, 05:27:56 am »
True, so I will apply Martin's technique as described in a previous post. We'll see what kind of boil-off that will give.
Frank P.

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Offline indevrede

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2016, 06:26:38 am »
The Zymatic Picobrew recirculates the wort at 208F with a pump and electric heater (PID). I don't own one, but there are good reviews from some users on this forum.

RPIScotty

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2016, 07:17:16 am »
True, so I will apply Martin's technique as described in a previous post. We'll see what kind of boil-off that will give.

Just a bit of anecdotal info:

My last batch was a Dubbel where I used my new 12 qt. pot for the first time. I had been using an 8 qt. pot prior and hadn't really been able to "let her rip" for fear of major boil over. So I typically would get a nice simmer going and call it a day.

This last batch, being armed with an extra gallon of space, was really ripping along for about the entire 30 minute boil. I mean roaring, turning over and damn near exiting the pot. I overshot my OG due to the reduce amount of wort from boil off. I typically factored in 0.5 gal/HR in my 8 qt. pot and must have overshot that a bit.

I will be returning to a gentler boil on the next go round. I can't say that I notice any negatives from really letting it rip, as I had a brief ferm temp mismanagement on that batch that clouds my judgement, but I welcome not having to boil like crazy, if only to reduce the amount of preboil volume I need to hit my numbers.


Offline toby

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2016, 08:09:29 am »
I don't think of a rolling boil as anything jumping up in the kettle.  This is what I think of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjl6Vg148nU

RPIScotty

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2016, 08:49:40 am »
I don't think of a rolling boil as anything jumping up in the kettle.  This is what I think of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjl6Vg148nU

Just a delta on the nomenclature I think.

What you posted is what I think of as a really ripping boil.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2016, 08:58:14 am »
A person who boils their macaroni like that should ask their physician to have the dose lowered prontissimo.
Frank P.

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Offline blair.streit

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2016, 09:09:23 am »
A person who boils their macaroni like that should ask their physician to have the dose lowered prontissimo.
Here's a fun Kenji Lopez-Alt article about boiling pasta:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/05/how-to-cook-pasta-salt-water-boiling-tips-the-food-lab.html

Long story short, if you cut the water volume down substantially and stir through the "hot break" phase you can cook your pasta with less water and have no ill effects. You can actually even do it -- gasp -- without boiling.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2016, 09:26:08 am »
I have that book. I'm going to rip it apart to start a barbecue tonight.
Frank P.

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Offline blair.streit

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Re: rolling boil?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2016, 09:33:33 am »
I have that book. I'm going to rip it apart to start a barbecue tonight.
What, The Food Lab? Do you not like it in general or does the pasta thing just cross a line that you're not comfortable with?