[UnequivocalBrewing]

I'm trying to make a nice juicy IPA. Yup, a juicy IPA. Sorry to the folks that don't like that term. My IPAs usually end around 4.6 PH and I'd like to drop it to about 4.4. My mash PH is 5.2. I'm pretty suresome of the good New England IPA guys are using citric.

I cannot find any rules of thumb for quantities to PH drops. Can someone please help?

[kramerog]

There isn't a good way to calculate/estimate how much citric acid to add. 

Out of interest, what information do you have that citric acid is being used and that dropping the pH by 0.2 would be good?

If you know how much lactic or phosphoric you need to adjust the mash pH to the desired level, it is a fairly easy calculation to substitute the citric for the lactic or phosphoric.  I think that the flavor profile of citric would come through.

[mabrungard]

Bru'n Water includes calculations for Citric acid. The supporter's version includes output on the resulting concentration of citrate in the beer from citric acid additions and its comparison with typical taste thresholds.

I've long advocated that including appropriate levels of flavorful acids in beer could provide a positive improvement to beer. Acids like acetic, citric, malic, and tartaric could be applied to beer to create a variety of flavor effects. The trick is to use them at levels around their taste thresholds. The supporter's version of Bru'n Water enables a brewer to use up to 4 different acids in their brew.

[majorvices]

Bru'n Water includes calculations for Citric acid. The supporter's version includes output on the resulting concentration of citrate in the beer from citric acid additions and its comparison with typical taste thresholds.

I've long advocated that including appropriate levels of flavorful acids in beer could provide a positive improvement to beer. Acids like acetic, citric, malic, and tartaric could be applied to beer to create a variety of flavor effects. The trick is to use them at levels around their taste thresholds. The supporter's version of Bru'n Water enables a brewer to use up to 4 different acids in their brew.

OMG look at Martins post count!

[majorvices]

In case he posts again! Happy 4th!

[HoosierBrew]

That's awesome. Pretty damn patriotic.   

[brewinhard]

Whoa!  That is truly awesome. Happy 4th everyone!  Wish someone could photoshop a nice white wig on Martin's head ala George Washington.

[UnequivocalBrewing]

Bissell Brothers out of Portland Maine has brewing notes pasted in their bathroom and there is a fair amount of notes about citric acid being used to drop PH in the mash and sparge.

Also, when I test the final PH of beer like Julius from Treehouse it's right around 4.4.  I imagine that gives the beer a bright and lively flavor and mouth feel.  Or at least contributes somewhat to it.

I am 100% certain that hitting PH alone will not make a good beer.  However, these guys make incredible beers and emulating some of their processes can't hurt.

[UnequivocalBrewing]

Thanks Martin.  I use Bru'n water for all of my water treatment calculations.  I couldn't figure out the Citric acid contributions with any degree of confidence. 

When I brewed last week, I hit 5.2 in my mash.  Then I added my normal sulfate and chloride additions to the kettle along with 1/2 teaspoon of Citric acid for 5 gallons to the boil.  So far the beer tastes good.  We will see what resulting PH is...this may be a trial and error kind of thing.

[narcout]

When I brewed last week, I hit 5.2 in my mash.  Then I added my normal sulfate and chloride additions to the kettle along with 1/2 teaspoon of Citric acid for 5 gallons to the boil.

Something interesting I learned from Principles of Brewing Science is that calcium ions "continue to interact with malt phosphate during wort boiling, and the ongoing reaction between calcium and phosphate is the primary reason that the pH decreases in the kettle boil."

[denny]

When I brewed last week, I hit 5.2 in my mash.  Then I added my normal sulfate and chloride additions to the kettle along with 1/2 teaspoon of Citric acid for 5 gallons to the boil.

Something interesting I learned from Principles of Brewing Science is that calcium ions "continue to interact with malt phosphate during wort boiling, and the ongoing reaction between calcium and phosphate is the primary reason that the pH decreases in the kettle boil."

Cool!  Nice piece of info!