Author Topic: Tropical Stout  (Read 2029 times)

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2781
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Tropical Stout
« on: June 17, 2016, 05:43:57 PM »
So, this is a new style to me and I am starting with a 2.5 gallon batch (4 gallons in the boil):

4 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Simpson Double Roast
4 oz. Chocolate
2 oz. Carafa II

Boil additions (1 hour boil):
1 lb Molasses
4oz. Lactose

60 Min 1 oz. East Kent Goldings; 30 minute add .5 oz EKG

Fermenting with S-23 in the low 60's F.

Any thoughts on this style or recipe as proposed?
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3217
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2016, 05:48:12 PM »
So, this is a new style to me and I am starting with a 2.5 gallon batch (4 gallons in the boil):

4 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Simpson Double Roast
4 oz. Chocolate
2 oz. Carafa II

Boil additions (1 hour boil):
1 lb Molasses
4oz. Lactose

60 Min 1 oz. East Kent Goldings; 30 minute add .5 oz EKG

Fermenting with S-23 in the low 60's F.

Any thoughts on this style or recipe as proposed?

I think the grain bill looks okay, but I don't think you need any lactose and 1# of molasses is a lot for a 2.5 gallon batch. I can't comment on a good yeast strain for this, but I do know I do not like S-23 at all. Maybe an Irish ale yeast or you could go with Fermentis 34/70 fermenting around 60F for a cleaner profile?

Offline narcout

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1737
  • Los Angeles, CA
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2016, 06:15:24 PM »
What type of molasses are you considering?  My personal experience is that even a few ounces of the dark stuff is unpleasant.

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2781
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2016, 06:22:24 PM »
I was not going to use black strap - something milder.

Here's the BJCP flavor description:

Flavor: Quite sweet with a smooth dark grain flavors, and restrained bitterness. Roasted grain and malt character can be moderate to high with a smooth coffee or chocolate flavor, although the roast character is moderated in the balance by the sweet finish. Moderate to high fruity esters. Can have a sweet, dark rum-like quality. Little to no hop flavor. Medium-low to no diacetyl.

And the ingredients per BJCP:

Characteristic Ingredients: Similar to a sweet stout, but with more gravity. Pale and dark roasted malts and grains. Hops mostly for bitterness. May use adjuncts and sugar to boost gravity. Typically made with warm-fermented lager yeast.

This newly recognized style is fermented with estery lager yeast and S-23 has the most of that as far as I know.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4345
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2016, 06:35:55 PM »
I use 4 oz of Barbados molasses in my imperial stout and it is noticeable.  Much more and it starts to become a dominant flavor.

Using a pound might give you molasses beer.  Which is fine if that's what you want.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2781
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2016, 08:16:01 PM »
I appreciate the concerns and I will tone it back to 4 oz. of molasses - I will use the Barbadian without the Blackstrap and unsulphured.  As a Tropical Stout, the beer needs to be sweet per the style, however.  I am not sure if molasses can dominate, but the style definitely contemplates Caribbean influence on the sweetness and molasses is that. 

This is not a beer I intend to make habitually...it is for a club contest for this new style in the 2015 BJCP style guide (hence only the 2.5 gallon batch that I will bottle condition).  We had a commercial example of the style a few months back and it was so badly oxidized that the style flavor was somewhat lost on us.

Just wondering if anyone has brewed the style and any additional feedback is welcome.  I have all the ingredients other than the lactose and the molasses, so I intend to make it Sunday, if all goes as planned.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4345
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2016, 08:26:00 PM »
I don't think molasses adds sweetness.  It will boost the alcohol, for sure.  It ferments out pretty well, like honey, but leaves more flavor behind.

The lactose will bring some sweetness, though.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2781
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2016, 08:38:52 PM »
Agreed, Joe.  I wasn't terribly clear.  I was expecting it to leave some residual "cane"-like flavor, but ferment out mostly, if not entirely.  The lactose is intended to ensure some residual unfermented sugars giving it sweetness, but if the lager yeast leaves some "molasses" flavor behind, I am hoping it compliments the fruity esters and sweetness to some degree to give complexity.

I see it very much like honey added to a honey lemon Koelsch to give floral notes to balance the citrus.

I could be convinced otherwise - this is my first fling on this style.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3217
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2016, 11:22:32 PM »
I believe when they say sweetness, they are referring to crystal malts and perhaps a higher FG leaving some of that residual mouthfeel behind in the finished product. I don't think you need lactose to get you there. I think some munich malt and layering of two crystals should be more than enough.

I still would not use S-23 for this. I think 34/70 would be better. Even if you ferment it around 72F ala Brulosophy.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2016, 12:47:53 AM »
I believe when they say sweetness, they are referring to crystal malts and perhaps a higher FG leaving some of that residual mouthfeel behind in the finished product. I don't think you need lactose to get you there. I think some munich malt and layering of two crystals should be more than enough.

I still would not use S-23 for this. I think 34/70 would be better. Even if you ferment it around 72F ala Brulosophy.

I wouldn't use lactose either. I see it as a <maybe > slightly bigger American  stout,.finishing fairly dry but without the late hop  character . WY 1028 is great for this style.

Edit for Lion Stout being the only example I've had. It's very tasty.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 12:50:48 AM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2781
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2016, 12:06:09 PM »
Good thoughts all.  I still see this as essentially an Imperial Sweet Stout.  Lactose is not required, but it should fit in well.  A touch of Munich would work, but the Simosons double roast is quite sweet as a new crystal malt in the 110-120L range. 
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3217
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2016, 01:02:47 PM »
I see it as more of a foreign export stout style with perhaps a lager yeast to keep the fermentation profile fairly clean.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2016, 02:45:29 PM »
I see it as more of a foreign export stout style with perhaps a lager yeast to keep the fermentation profile fairly clean.


Good call - it's pretty much a foreign export.
Jon H.

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2781
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2016, 03:00:31 PM »
I see it as more of a foreign export stout style with perhaps a lager yeast to keep the fermentation profile fairly clean.


Good call - it's pretty much a foreign export.

Actually per BJCP:

Characteristic Ingredients: Similar to a sweet stout, but with more gravity. Pale and dark roasted malts and grains. Hops mostly for bitterness. May use adjuncts and sugar to boost gravity. Typically made with warm-fermented lager yeast.

Style Comparison: Tastes like a scaled-up sweet stout with higher fruitiness. Similar to some Imperial Stouts without the high bitterness, strong/burnt roastiness, and late hops, and with lower alcohol. Much more sweet and less hoppy than American Stouts. Much sweeter and less bitter than the similar-gravity Export Stouts.

I just haven't seen much written on this style....
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Tropical Stout
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2016, 03:12:56 PM »
I see it as more of a foreign export stout style with perhaps a lager yeast to keep the fermentation profile fairly clean.


Good call - it's pretty much a foreign export.

Actually per BJCP:

Characteristic Ingredients: Similar to a sweet stout, but with more gravity. Pale and dark roasted malts and grains. Hops mostly for bitterness. May use adjuncts and sugar to boost gravity. Typically made with warm-fermented lager yeast.

Style Comparison: Tastes like a scaled-up sweet stout with higher fruitiness. Similar to some Imperial Stouts without the high bitterness, strong/burnt roastiness, and late hops, and with lower alcohol. Much more sweet and less hoppy than American Stouts. Much sweeter and less bitter than the similar-gravity Export Stouts.

I just haven't seen much written on this style....



Ok, cool. I hadn't seen the guidelines. I was wrong on the Lion Stout - it's brewed in Sri Lanka (which is why I assumed it was considered a tropical stout), but it's actually classified as a foreign export. So my impressions of it were based on a foreign export flavor profile. My bad.
Jon H.